Dragon 382 - Winning Races: Dusk Elf

[ProfessorCirno]

This isn't a sub-race in the same sense that 3.5 or earlier elven sub-races existed. They are mechanically identical to elves, and are only distinguished after the player decides to pick up a specific feat.

The mechanics were never the issue with the elven or dwarven sub-races.

The problem was when there were eleven different types of elves. "So, what's an elf - " "DUSK elf. I'm very different from other elves!" "And I'm a WILD elf. GOD." "Not Corellion." "What?" "God. Better not be Corellion. We dusk elves hate Corellion!"

I'm sorry, having stupid amounts of sub races is dumb. 4e doesn't get a free pass because it does it differently. It's still ramping up the sub-races, something they openly stated that wouldn't do.

 

[CubeKnight]

The mechanics were never the issue with the elven or dwarven sub-races.

The problem was when there were eleven different types of elves. "So, what's an elf - " "DUSK elf. I'm very different from other elves!" "And I'm a WILD elf. GOD." "Not Corellion." "What?" "God. Better not be Corellion. We dusk elves hate Corellion!"

I'm sorry, having stupid amounts of sub races is dumb. 4e doesn't get a free pass because it does it differently. It's still ramping up the sub-races, something they openly stated that wouldn't do.

And..... how is that different from having different cultures or groups of <race> that like/dislike a particular deity/race/food/color? Or are we not allowed to have a group of elves that hates, I don't know, Bahamut?

 

[Cadfan]

This is an example of one of those issues where the proper response to complaints is:

"If you don't like it, don't play it. Not everything in D&D was put there specifically for you. Some people like these things, and its not ruining the game if someone other than you has fun. On a certain level there has to be a degree of live and let live, or a big tent game can't function."

 

[Rechan]

I could see more of these for Elves and other races as well. Dwarves with a special link to earth spirits, and some lost Human bloodlines.

Tiefling and Dragonborn.

Hell, the Winning Races: Tiefling had this in there (The Blood Crowned Courtier).

 

[ProfessorCirno]

This is an example of one of those issues where the proper response to complaints is:

"If you don't like it, don't play it. Not everything in D&D was put there specifically for you. Some people like these things, and its not ruining the game if someone other than you has fun. On a certain level there has to be a degree of live and let live, or a big tent game can't function."

My big gripe isn't that the sub-races are returning - hell, I love 3.5, and it has them up the arse - but rather that they're returning in spite of WotC saying that they wouldn't be.

 

[Blackbrrd]

My big gripe isn't that the sub-races are returning - hell, I love 3.5, and it has them up the arse - but rather that they're returning in spite of WotC saying that they wouldn't be.

So you are complaining on principle?

Really, this seems like a non-issue.

 

[FireLance]

My big gripe isn't that the sub-races are returning - hell, I love 3.5, and it has them up the arse - but rather that they're returning in spite of WotC saying that they wouldn't be.

Still not really understanding the outrage. So WotC came up with stuff that they said they wouldn't come up with. This to me is several orders of magnitude less significant than promising something and failing to deliver since I can simply ignore stuff I don't like.

For what it's worth, the mechanical implementation of Dusk Elves is nothing like the mechanical implementation of sub-races in previous editions. They don't have different racial abilities. They don't have different ability score adjustments. It doesn't seem likely that they are going to have an entire chapter to themselves in the next Complete Elf Splatbook. They are normal elves who have taken a specific feat to reflect a particular background.

Even if I have some philosophical objection against sub-races, and WotC starts coming up with new "sub-race" material, it seems to me that I can take it, change it quite easily, and use it for some other purpose. The "Dusk Elves" in the article could simply be an organization of particularly stealthy elves without using the term "sub-race" at all.

 

[Jhaelen]

And they give us the "dusk elves" who shadowmeld at night.

Thanks for letting me be the first to note that this is obviously directly inspired by WoW's night elves. Which is why _I_ dislike it.

If they want to publish a 4e campaign setting based on WoW, that's fine by me. But 'sneaking in' WoW stuff like this irks me.

 

[Aexalon]

Dusk elves aren't a subrace, they're a culture. I see no broken promises, just as there were none when the gold and silver eladrin cultures or the wild and wood elf cultures were detailed in the FRPG.

 

[avin]

I say: bring all subraces you can create, thanks. With fluff, please.