Mistwell
Crusty Old Meatwad
Not really, but thanks for your meaningless generalization.
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NOW LIVE! Into the Woods--new character species, eerie monsters, and haunting villains to populate the woodlands of your D&D games.
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Not really, but thanks for your meaningless generalization.
Dannager
First Post
No, I'm pretty sure that's not what's going on at all.
Comments like yours don't help matters, either.
Ladies and Gentlemen,
Recent events in the political sphere are not, I repeat NOT, suitable analogies for discussion on these boards.
In general, the quality of language and civility in this thread is going downhill - enough with the asshats and goddamns, folks. Let's lift the level of the rhetoric from here on, hm?
Recent events in the political sphere are not, I repeat NOT, suitable analogies for discussion on these boards.
In general, the quality of language and civility in this thread is going downhill - enough with the asshats and goddamns, folks. Let's lift the level of the rhetoric from here on, hm?
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malkav666
First Post
And you are basing this "safe guess" on what? Because that statement really does not make any sense to me, and kind of looks like a make believe line of think you are using to try and validate your own opinion.
Because I am seeing the book book ranked in sales on sites like Amazon. I am seeing the company making the game for the last winning awards for their work for the last several years (see the Ennies). I am seeing all of the rpg websites I visit talking about Pathfinder. I am seeing Paizo products displayed prominently in the capstone display that every gamer sees as they come into the store at one of my local FLGS, and them having a book display area that is equal to that of 4e at the other. I am seeing the books at big chain bookstores in my area.
It must be that these gamers that you say safely cannot have heard of it don't use the internet to shop their games, they must not be buying stuff at FLGS or big band book stores. Because I am seeing Paizo at ALL of those outlets. These gamers must not be doing ANY gaming at public venues either (in fact is this thread not about a gamer roaming around a huge con and seeing games like PFRPG being played, but not 4e?).
I don't think its very safe to say at all.The jury is still out for me on PFRPG's staying power (time will tell on that one). But I feel that the game is signifigantly popular to the point that most gamers interested in the purchase of fantasy games (ie. those folks that buy new releases from folks making new fanstasy gaming material) and actually buying those games, should have a decent chance of knowing what Pathfinder is.
love,
malkav
Dice4Hire
First Post
The big question for me is if Pathfinder will be able to break past the True20, C&C and such levels of gaming. Sure, on this board, those systems had rabid defenders, and supporters, but I would only very very rarely see a game being offered using those systems. Thus far it has been the same with Pathfinder.
Granted, I do not game everywhere and anywhere so these games might be being played in places I do not go, but not seeing these games played in areas I do go is a big disincentive to buying the game.
Granted, I do not game everywhere and anywhere so these games might be being played in places I do not go, but not seeing these games played in areas I do go is a big disincentive to buying the game.
Mistwell
Crusty Old Meatwad
Malk, from what I can tell, most gamers don't buy game books, enter game stores, or discuss games on the net.
WOTC revealed that in their survey long ago that a lot of people are still just plugging along with their home brew game that started as 1E.
Another large group are simply players in games, though they never buy any books for those games, or enter a game store, or even even log into an internet forum like this. That accounts for almost every single person I play with.
I think there is this perception that most gamers buy new games, frequent local game stores, and use the internet to discuss said games. I really do not think they do.
But more importantly, why do you seem so bothered by my saying that I think most gamers have not heard of Paizo and Pathfinder, given I also said I thought Pathfinder was a huge success? What's with the "make believe line" accusation?
Dannager
First Post
This.
Most gamers are not enthusiasts. They play or have played in maybe one game, with one system, and perhaps own the player book for that system.
Again, surround yourself with the hardcore and that's all you're going to see.
Uh, what am I misrepresenting? If you're not buying or playing 4e, you... aren't buying or playing 4e. I didn't imply that they wouldn't - at least not most of them - but they're still among the many people who would call themselves D&D players but who aren't playing 4th edition or really caring about 4th edition in any way.
Which... is what I said in the first place. Unless you were constantly pressing for a different game or something while you were in the 3e game you never really liked, you were a 3e player.
malkav666 said:
Dude, that's most of my gaming community - doesn't use the internet to shop for games (in fact, doesn't really shop for games at all), doesn't have a FLGS, and generally don't buy RPG books at all. The only reason more than two or three of them have heard of Pathfinder is that one of them handed the beta to me one day and said he wanted to use it in my current D&D game.
You really underestimate just how many gamers are just that way because their friends game, and who aren't really throwing money at it, posting on gaming boards, or going to conventions.
Pathfinder has a much easier time of things, because I can just toss some of its good ideas into my 3e game. True20 is Something Totally Different.
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Yeah, well, that it doesn't make sense to you in no way suggests intellectual weakness or dishonesty in someone else, okay?
While I don't take it as given data, it does make sense to me. Here's why:
WotC has released some tidbits of market research information now and again over the past decade. It suggests that there's something like 3 million or more people who play Pen-n-Paper RPGs regularly (like once a month or more).
Take all the folks who go to GenCon, all the folks who are registered users on messageboards and RPG websites, and you've got numbers in the hundreds of thousands. That is - the people who are seeing conversation about Pathfinder are a smallish fraction of the overall gaming population.
Amazon sales rank? There's been much discussion of that elsewhere that I'd not want to repeat. Suffice to say, the "sales rank" does not actually indicate how good the sales are, except in the very short term (like, the course of a week), and in a relative sense. It can be strongly affected by short bursts of purchases, and does not actually indicate the sales are strong for, say, the year.
And, honestly, having it sit on the shelf at the bookstore or FLGS when I am buying other things hardly means I "know about" the game. Glancing at the spines does not grant real knowledge.
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BryonD
Hero
He said "heard of". I think that standard is an entirely reasonable comparison.
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