Dragon Disciple Remix
- Thread starter Timely Drought
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Timely Drought
First Post
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Timely Drought
First Post
I'd raise prereqs if I went for a gish build. Dunno if I should go half spellcaster or near-full spellcaster (8 or 9 for 10 levels?) if I required 3rd level arcane spells.
I suppose the extra magical oomph would make for a better cult leader type villain.
How about requiring lots of wealth for the rituals to go up in this prestige class, so I get a strong villain without needing (or being able to afford) lots of magical items. Sacrifices to the Dragon of Ruin, for his celestial hoard in the heavens. This is a cult dedicated to entropy. Maybe like the Batman Begins League of Shadows for an anti-decadence spin.
Would 8 spellcaster levels, full BAB, and +8 strength at 10th level be too much if I required 3rd level arcane spells and say... half wealth gained be poured into rituals to go up in levels. I'm iffy on balancing with wealth but I don't think this would be a particularly strong gish build.
And even if its NPC-only I'd like it to be balanced.
I suppose the extra magical oomph would make for a better cult leader type villain.
How about requiring lots of wealth for the rituals to go up in this prestige class, so I get a strong villain without needing (or being able to afford) lots of magical items. Sacrifices to the Dragon of Ruin, for his celestial hoard in the heavens. This is a cult dedicated to entropy. Maybe like the Batman Begins League of Shadows for an anti-decadence spin.
Would 8 spellcaster levels, full BAB, and +8 strength at 10th level be too much if I required 3rd level arcane spells and say... half wealth gained be poured into rituals to go up in levels. I'm iffy on balancing with wealth but I don't think this would be a particularly strong gish build.
And even if its NPC-only I'd like it to be balanced.
Timely Drought
First Post
DRAGON DISCIPLE
Hit Die: d12.
Requirements
To qualify to become a dragon disciple, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
Race: Any nondragon (cannot already be a half-dragon).
Skills: Knowledge (arcana) 8 ranks.
Languages: Draconic.
Spellcasting: Ability to cast 3rd level arcane spells without preparation.
Class Skills
The dragon disciple’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Gather Information (Cha), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (Int), Listen (Wis), Profession (Wis), Search (Int), Speak Language (Int), Spellcraft (Int), and Spot (Wis).
Skill Points at Each Level: 2 + Int modifier.
Table: The Dragon Disciple
Class Features
All of the following are Class Features of the dragon disciple prestige class.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Dragon disciples gain no proficiency with any weapon or armor.
Ability Boost (Ex): As a dragon disciple gains levels in this prestige class, his ability scores increase and stack as if through level advancement
Breath Weapon (Su): At 2nd level, a dragon disciple gains a minor breath weapon. The type (acid, cold, fire, lightning) and shape (line or cone) are determined by the dragon disciple.
The breath weapon can be used once every 5 rounds. The DC of the breath weapon is 10 + class level + Con modifier.
Use all the rules for dragon breath weapons except as specified here.
A line-shaped breath weapon is 5 feet high, 5 feet wide, and 60 feet long. A cone-shaped breath weapon is 30 feet long.
Blindsense (Ex): At 5th level, the dragon disciple gains blindsense with a range of 30 feet. Using nonvisual senses the dragon disciple notices things it cannot see. He usually does not need to make Spot or Listen checks to notice and pinpoint the location of creatures within range of his blindsense ability, provided that he has line of effect to that creature.
Any opponent the dragon disciple cannot see still has total concealment against him, and the dragon disciple still has the normal miss chance when attacking foes that have concealment. Visibility still affects the movement of a creature with blindsense. A creature with blindsense is still denied its Dexterity bonus to Armor Class against attacks from creatures it cannot see. At 9th level, the range of this ability increases to 60 feet.
Hit Die: d12.
Requirements
To qualify to become a dragon disciple, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
Race: Any nondragon (cannot already be a half-dragon).
Skills: Knowledge (arcana) 8 ranks.
Languages: Draconic.
Spellcasting: Ability to cast 3rd level arcane spells without preparation.
Class Skills
The dragon disciple’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Gather Information (Cha), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (Int), Listen (Wis), Profession (Wis), Search (Int), Speak Language (Int), Spellcraft (Int), and Spot (Wis).
Skill Points at Each Level: 2 + Int modifier.
Table: The Dragon Disciple
Code:
Level BAB Fort Ref Will Spellcaster Level
1st +1 +2 +0 +2 -
2nd +2 +3 +0 +3 +1
3rd +3 +3 +1 +3 +1
4th +4 +4 +1 +4 +1
5th +5 +4 +1 +4 +1
6th +6 +5 +2 +5 -
7th +7 +5 +2 +5 +1
8th +8 +6 +2 +6 +1
9th +9 +6 +3 +6 +1
10th +10 +7 +3 +7 +1
Level Breath Weapon Ability boost Special
1st 1d6 +2 str Low-light vision
2nd 2d6 +2 str
3rd 3d6 +2 con Darkvision 60'
4th 4d6 +2 con
5th 5d6 +2 int Blindsense 30'
6th 6d6 +2 int
7th 7d6 +2 cha Immunity to sleep
8th 8d6 +2 cha Immunity to paralysis effects
9th 9d6 +2 str Blindsense 60'
10th 10d6 +2 str Immunity to breath energy typeAll of the following are Class Features of the dragon disciple prestige class.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Dragon disciples gain no proficiency with any weapon or armor.
Ability Boost (Ex): As a dragon disciple gains levels in this prestige class, his ability scores increase and stack as if through level advancement
Breath Weapon (Su): At 2nd level, a dragon disciple gains a minor breath weapon. The type (acid, cold, fire, lightning) and shape (line or cone) are determined by the dragon disciple.
The breath weapon can be used once every 5 rounds. The DC of the breath weapon is 10 + class level + Con modifier.
Use all the rules for dragon breath weapons except as specified here.
A line-shaped breath weapon is 5 feet high, 5 feet wide, and 60 feet long. A cone-shaped breath weapon is 30 feet long.
Blindsense (Ex): At 5th level, the dragon disciple gains blindsense with a range of 30 feet. Using nonvisual senses the dragon disciple notices things it cannot see. He usually does not need to make Spot or Listen checks to notice and pinpoint the location of creatures within range of his blindsense ability, provided that he has line of effect to that creature.
Any opponent the dragon disciple cannot see still has total concealment against him, and the dragon disciple still has the normal miss chance when attacking foes that have concealment. Visibility still affects the movement of a creature with blindsense. A creature with blindsense is still denied its Dexterity bonus to Armor Class against attacks from creatures it cannot see. At 9th level, the range of this ability increases to 60 feet.
Timely Drought
First Post
This version is maybe a bit insane with ability score increases. +8 str, +4 con, +4 int, +4 cha. I should probably drop that to +4 str, +2 con, +2 int, +2 cha. Or +8 str, +2 con, +2 int, +2 cha.
So, this guy can get +15 BAB, caster level 18 (in spontaneous caster), 10d4+10d12 hd, +8 str, +4 con, +4 cha, +4 int, lowlight vision, darkvision 60', blindsense 60', immunity to sleep and paralysis, and an unlimited use breath weapon..
But the prc doesnt have any prereqs for someone who is already a spontaneous caster.
I think it is a bit much now
I'd suggest cutting into the BAB and give it a few feat prereqs, as it seems you want to keep nearly all caster levels.
As written now, definately too much!
But the prc doesnt have any prereqs for someone who is already a spontaneous caster.
I think it is a bit much now
I'd suggest cutting into the BAB and give it a few feat prereqs, as it seems you want to keep nearly all caster levels.
As written now, definately too much!
Timely Drought
First Post
The prereq is 3rd level arcane. So that means the dude gets level 6 sorcerer at earliest to fill prereqs. Then he gets +8 caster level and +10 BAB. So 14th level caster and +13 BAB. To finish up his levels he either gets 4 more sorcerer for 18th level caster +15 BAB or some full BAB class for 14th level caster +17 BAB.Scion said:So, this guy can get +15 BAB, caster level 18 (in spontaneous caster), 10d4+10d12 hd, +8 str, +4 con, +4 cha, +4 int, lowlight vision, darkvision 60', blindsense 60', immunity to sleep and paralysis, and an unlimited use breath weapon..
But the prc doesnt have any prereqs for someone who is already a spontaneous caster.
I think it is a bit much now
I'd suggest cutting into the BAB and give it a few feat prereqs, as it seems you want to keep nearly all caster levels.
As written now, definately too much!
Compares a bit too well to eldritch knight. Maybe I'll pump BAB prereq to +7. Meaning the sorcerer would need 6 levels +4 full BAB and be 10th level to fill prereqs. 10th level bard also qualifies. You could always cheat by going into eldritch knight at 7th level until 10th but I don't allow mixing of prestige classes.
Even then I'll drop ability boosts to +4 str +2 con +2 int +2 cha.
Though the breath weapon is unlimited it can only be used once or twice per fight so its not terrifying.
Sledge
First Post
Timely Drought, with you most recent revisions you have a Sorceror 6 (presuming you add the casting without preparation req) fighter 4 and DD 10 with a BAB of 17 +4 Str which is equivalent to better than BAB 19. So one bab dropped for caster level 14 boosted con int and cha as well as a breath weapon.
Comparatively to EK we have Sor6/F8/EK6 for caster level 14 and BAB of 17. Featswise you have 3 more fighter feats. With weapon specialization and focus twice those three feats give +2 attack +2 damage which is roughly (not quite) equivalent to what you have. However you also have higher hits points from Con, higher Cha, higher Int, a breath weapon, and several special abilities. I would suggest getting rid of a couple more caster levels and drop the BAB a bit. The breath weapon is still just a side power compared to fireballs etc so I wouldn't worry about that.
Comparatively to EK we have Sor6/F8/EK6 for caster level 14 and BAB of 17. Featswise you have 3 more fighter feats. With weapon specialization and focus twice those three feats give +2 attack +2 damage which is roughly (not quite) equivalent to what you have. However you also have higher hits points from Con, higher Cha, higher Int, a breath weapon, and several special abilities. I would suggest getting rid of a couple more caster levels and drop the BAB a bit. The breath weapon is still just a side power compared to fireballs etc so I wouldn't worry about that.
Timely Drought
First Post
Eh true. Would probably be better balanced with +1 caster level every even dragon disciple level. And drop the BAB req.
But now the class has a weird thing as a transition phase going from spellcaster to warrior. It should probably be the opposite to make sense. Maybe require +7 BAB and spontaneous spells of any level but grant full spellcasting and half BAB. Because spellcasters are weak at low levels and warriors weak at high levels so making a prestige class that goes from weakest to weakest makes no sense.
With this a Bard 10 can qualify with full bardic spellcasting.
A sorcerer 6 full BAB class 4 qualifies for 16th level spellcasting.
A sorcerer 2 full BAB class 6 qualifies for 14th level spellcasting.
Kind of counter-intuitive. I think I'll just stick with half spellcasting. Makes more sense as a fighter/barbarian-oriented class.
DRAGON DISCIPLE
Hit Die: d12.
Requirements
To qualify to become a dragon disciple, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
Race: Any nondragon (cannot already be a half-dragon).
Skills: Knowledge (arcana) 8 ranks.
Languages: Draconic.
Spellcasting: Ability to cast arcane spells without preparation.
Class Skills
The dragon disciple’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Gather Information (Cha), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (Int), Listen (Wis), Profession (Wis), Search (Int), Speak Language (Int), Spellcraft (Int), and Spot (Wis).
Skill Points at Each Level: 2 + Int modifier.
Table: The Dragon Disciple
Class Features
All of the following are Class Features of the dragon disciple prestige class.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Dragon disciples gain no proficiency with any weapon or armor.
Ability Boost (Ex): As a dragon disciple gains levels in this prestige class, his ability scores increase and stack as if through level advancement
Breath Weapon (Su): At 2nd level, a dragon disciple gains a minor breath weapon. The type (acid, cold, fire, lightning) and shape (line or cone) are determined by the dragon disciple.
The breath weapon can be used once every 5 rounds. The DC of the breath weapon is 10 + class level + Con modifier.
Use all the rules for dragon breath weapons except as specified here.
A line-shaped breath weapon is 5 feet high, 5 feet wide, and 60 feet long. A cone-shaped breath weapon is 30 feet long.
Blindsense (Ex): At 5th level, the dragon disciple gains blindsense with a range of 30 feet. Using nonvisual senses the dragon disciple notices things it cannot see. He usually does not need to make Spot or Listen checks to notice and pinpoint the location of creatures within range of his blindsense ability, provided that he has line of effect to that creature.
Any opponent the dragon disciple cannot see still has total concealment against him, and the dragon disciple still has the normal miss chance when attacking foes that have concealment. Visibility still affects the movement of a creature with blindsense. A creature with blindsense is still denied its Dexterity bonus to Armor Class against attacks from creatures it cannot see. At 9th level, the range of this ability increases to 60 feet.
But now the class has a weird thing as a transition phase going from spellcaster to warrior. It should probably be the opposite to make sense. Maybe require +7 BAB and spontaneous spells of any level but grant full spellcasting and half BAB. Because spellcasters are weak at low levels and warriors weak at high levels so making a prestige class that goes from weakest to weakest makes no sense.
With this a Bard 10 can qualify with full bardic spellcasting.
A sorcerer 6 full BAB class 4 qualifies for 16th level spellcasting.
A sorcerer 2 full BAB class 6 qualifies for 14th level spellcasting.
Kind of counter-intuitive. I think I'll just stick with half spellcasting. Makes more sense as a fighter/barbarian-oriented class.
DRAGON DISCIPLE
Hit Die: d12.
Requirements
To qualify to become a dragon disciple, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
Race: Any nondragon (cannot already be a half-dragon).
Skills: Knowledge (arcana) 8 ranks.
Languages: Draconic.
Spellcasting: Ability to cast arcane spells without preparation.
Class Skills
The dragon disciple’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Gather Information (Cha), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (Int), Listen (Wis), Profession (Wis), Search (Int), Speak Language (Int), Spellcraft (Int), and Spot (Wis).
Skill Points at Each Level: 2 + Int modifier.
Table: The Dragon Disciple
Code:
Level BAB Fort Ref Will Spellcaster Level
1st +1 +2 +0 +2 -
2nd +2 +3 +0 +3 +1
3rd +3 +3 +1 +3 -
4th +4 +4 +1 +4 +1
5th +5 +4 +1 +4 -
6th +6 +5 +2 +5 +1
7th +7 +5 +2 +5 -
8th +8 +6 +2 +6 +1
9th +9 +6 +3 +6 -
10th +10 +7 +3 +7 +1
Level Breath Weapon Ability boost Special
1st 1d6 +2 str Low-light vision
2nd 2d6
3rd 3d6 +2 con Darkvision 60'
4th 4d6
5th 5d6 +2 int Blindsense 30'
6th 6d6
7th 7d6 +2 cha Immunity to sleep
8th 8d6 Immunity to paralysis effects
9th 9d6 +2 str Blindsense 60'
10th 10d6 Immunity to breath energy typeAll of the following are Class Features of the dragon disciple prestige class.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Dragon disciples gain no proficiency with any weapon or armor.
Ability Boost (Ex): As a dragon disciple gains levels in this prestige class, his ability scores increase and stack as if through level advancement
Breath Weapon (Su): At 2nd level, a dragon disciple gains a minor breath weapon. The type (acid, cold, fire, lightning) and shape (line or cone) are determined by the dragon disciple.
The breath weapon can be used once every 5 rounds. The DC of the breath weapon is 10 + class level + Con modifier.
Use all the rules for dragon breath weapons except as specified here.
A line-shaped breath weapon is 5 feet high, 5 feet wide, and 60 feet long. A cone-shaped breath weapon is 30 feet long.
Blindsense (Ex): At 5th level, the dragon disciple gains blindsense with a range of 30 feet. Using nonvisual senses the dragon disciple notices things it cannot see. He usually does not need to make Spot or Listen checks to notice and pinpoint the location of creatures within range of his blindsense ability, provided that he has line of effect to that creature.
Any opponent the dragon disciple cannot see still has total concealment against him, and the dragon disciple still has the normal miss chance when attacking foes that have concealment. Visibility still affects the movement of a creature with blindsense. A creature with blindsense is still denied its Dexterity bonus to Armor Class against attacks from creatures it cannot see. At 9th level, the range of this ability increases to 60 feet.
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