[Dragon] First D&D 3.5 Update

[Xarlen]

YEs, let's hope they don't 2e us to death with Rules variations.

I'll note I'd love to see a Dwarven variation of the Elven weapon thing.

A Dwarven rogue or wizard with an axe just seems... Right.

Though, I really wish the Halfling Skiprock would just go away.

And they need to do better pictures for the weapons. The Dire Flail will just kill you, if you do it like that design. But there is a way to design the weapon to Work as it is, without clobbering you in the back of the head.

 

[Apok]

And they need to do better pictures for the weapons. The Dire Flail will just kill you, if you do it like that design. But there is a way to design the weapon to Work as it is, without clobbering you in the back of the head.

With the exception of the Dire Flail, I can easily envision a feasable style of combat one could utilize other Dual Weapons with without causing serious damage to themselves. Here's a hint; think Eastern rather than Western weapon fighting styles.

 

[I'm A Banana]

I think the complaining about buying them is kina a nonissue...

I'm nearly positive they won't change anything that's not in the SRD.

And they will update the SRD to reflect these changes.

So you can get the boatload of these things brand spankin' free!

 

[Xarlen]

With the exception of the Dire Flail, I can easily envision a feasable style of combat one could utilize other Dual Weapons with without causing serious damage to themselves. Here's a hint; think Eastern rather than Western weapon fighting styles.

Well, here's how the Dire Flail works.

Take a look at the Light Flail. See how it's just attached to the haft with a little Ring? No chain. Do the same thing with a head on each end of the haft.

This allows you to swing it, strike with it, and not get yourself clobbered with it on the backswing.

As for the Orc Double Axe, it should have been drawn with one axe blade pointed in the opposite direction then the other side (Like an S kinda).

 

[Glaurung]

Anyone else think the sample race they included (Ogre) is far too powerful for a +2 level modifier?

I mean it has Str +10, 4 levels of giant, including skill points, feats, and saves, +5 natural armor, and +4 Con.
Very little downside if you're any type of fighter. Even a half-dragon is not that powerful, and I believe they have a higher level equivalency. I would suggest at least +3 if not +4 for the ogre.

 

[Ranger REG]

The alternative is absurd. "We're dwarves, we make these things to fight with, but our fighters don't know how to use them."

But a fighter can pick up a weapon proficiency for it at first level or 2nd level, or every even levels thereafter.

Personally, I think the dwarven waraxe is not as common as a regular greataxe or battleaxe. In fact, I don't they should be called "dwarven waraxe." Just plain and simple "waraxe."

 

[Volaran]

But a fighter can pick up a weapon proficiency for it at first level or 2nd level, or every even levels thereafter.

Personally, I think the dwarven waraxe is not as common as a regular greataxe or battleaxe. In fact, I don't they should be called "dwarven waraxe." Just plain and simple "waraxe."

Perhaps a different question. Does it make more sense to you that a dwarven fighter gets rapier proficiency or greatsword proficiency for free but not dwarven waraxe?

 

[Staffan]

Anyone else think the sample race they included (Ogre) is far too powerful for a +2 level modifier?

I mean it has Str +10, 4 levels of giant, including skill points, feats, and saves, +5 natural armor, and +4 Con.
Very little downside if you're any type of fighter. Even a half-dragon is not that powerful, and I believe they have a higher level equivalency. I would suggest at least +3 if not +4 for the ogre.

It's possible that they mean +2 in addition to the 4 HD and associated benefits.

 

[ashockney]

Yes, it is my understanding from the reading that the character must start out as a sixth level character, but that they will actually have four levels worth of stats and bonuses.

I've got two issues with that. One, that means they have four levels with no distint benefits (no bonus feats, no spells, no exceptional skills), and then they have two levels of nothing? Nothing at all, no hit dice, skills, saves, BAB, nada. This just isn't very fun to play! The second, is that they have chosen to make the Ogre a +10 strength bonus. +10? That's huge. It's hard to imagine anyone ever playing a fighter that won't take Ogre automatically. Not that this is a bad thing, just a dramatic change for DnD. Why, from a design perspective go that high? Why not cap it out at +4 or +6? Whoa.

Interesting note, the first thing I thought of when I saw this sidebar was the EQ RPG. There is an excellent Ogre race in that game. The game is very well done. Could this be a move to shore up the main-line game to keep pace with competition? Is the timing simply ironic? A combination? Your thoughts?

As far as playtesting goes, and what will change. It sure seems like they're hitting all the "hot buttons" with their initial discussion. If you went to Wizards Messageboards, or did a search at EN World, I'm quite certain you could get a pretty clear map of what will be changed in 3rd Edition. All the stuff that people have complained about being broken, is what we'll see getting fixed. Rules that are there strictly for flavor, or don't seem to truly add any power...will all get fixed. As far as the rules for building your "own" races and prestige classes, I'm not holding my breath. I don't think we're going to see much beyond what's been published in Dragon Magazine, in the splatbooks, and on the website. It will be a little more polished and with a nice consolidated presentation, but I don't see them presenting us with a player's option: skills & powers listing of each ability, and it's relative cost, so that we can piece together exactly what we want.

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

As far as Ogres go, they are size Large, which makes their armor cost more for less benefit. They get AC and attack penalties (which are made up for in bonuses), but also a -2 DEX, -4 INT, and -4 CHA. A non-human with an Intelligence penalty is pretty much crippled as a Fighter, especially when they can't go into town for fear of being killed.

They also lose two levels of skills, feats, and class abilities for their ECL, and the four levels of Giant provide few skills, no class abilities, and the BAB and HD of a Cleric. At level six, they are roughly equivalent to a third level Warrior-- not Fighter, the NPC class.

I'd say Ogres are just about balanced.