[Dragon] First D&D 3.5 Update

[Apok]

As for the Orc Double Axe, it should have been drawn with one axe blade pointed in the opposite direction then the other side (Like an S kinda).

That is one way to picture it, and in fact I often ask my players if they are using single or double headed axes so it could go for an Orc Double Axe as well. For the picutre as drawn, I envision a fighting style similiar to the way one might use a lajatang or any double ended polearm, compensating for the weapons weight and length. Or heck, even those massive boff-weapons that were used on American Gladiators where they try to knock each other off their respective pillars. The ODA would be a much more deadly version of those.

 

[smetzger]

Yes, it is my understanding from the reading that the character must start out as a sixth level character, but that they will actually have four levels worth of stats and bonuses.

I've got two issues with that. One, that means they have four levels with no distint benefits (no bonus feats, no spells, no exceptional skills), and then they have two levels of nothing? Nothing at all, no hit dice, skills, saves, BAB, nada. This just isn't very fun to play! The second, is that they have chosen to make the Ogre a +10 strength bonus. +10? That's huge. It's hard to imagine anyone ever playing a fighter that won't take Ogre automatically. Not that this is a bad thing, just a dramatic change for DnD. Why, from a design perspective go that high? Why not cap it out at +4 or +6? Whoa.

Its not a dramatic change. Thats the way its been all along for Ogres in 3e. They have always had a +10 bonus to strength. Look at your MM, the Str listed is 21, all monsters are built with 10's and 11's in all abilities and then the racial modifiers are added in; this +10 Str bonus.

Are you sure the article says 4 levels of skills for the Ogre? Thats a very large change from how it is presently done.

 

[ashockney]

The Ogre begins with 4 HD, and gains skill points equal to 2+Int Mod (Min 1) per levelx7, with class skills of Climb, Listen, and Spot. Keep in mind that with a -4 to INT, there is a good chance he is only getting 7 skill points from this.

 

[Spatula]

Interesting note, the first thing I thought of when I saw this sidebar was the EQ RPG. There is an excellent Ogre race in that game. The game is very well done. Could this be a move to shore up the main-line game to keep pace with competition? Is the timing simply ironic? A combination? Your thoughts?

Aside from ogres being worth 6 levels (they're listed as 5 in the DMG and that was updated to 8 in a previous Dragon issue), everything you describe (+10 STR, etc.) is not new. See pages 22-24 of your DMG.

 

[Regdar]

Regdar should also point out that most Monster Characters don't get the x4 skill points at 1st either.

 

[smetzger]

The Ogre begins with 4 HD, and gains skill points equal to 2+Int Mod (Min 1) per levelx7, with class skills of Climb, Listen, and Spot. Keep in mind that with a -4 to INT, there is a good chance he is only getting 7 skill points from this.

This is confusing, whats the x7 for? and is it Min 1 with the plus 2 or after or after the per lvl?

First read of your formulae I came up with 28 skillpoints.
2+Int Mod = 1 (due to min)
1 x 4 (for level) = 4
4 x 7 (magic number) = 28

MM Ogres currently get 6 skill points, They have 4 HD, and a -2 Int check (i.e. 6 Int)

ah maybe you lumped the x4 for 1st level with lvls 2,3, and 4. But this contradicts what Redgar said.

Perhaps the formulae should be
(2 + Int Mod)X4 +
(2+ Int Mod) +
(2 + Int Mod) +
(2 + Int Mod)

Where each line has a Min of 1. This gives us a 7 skill point Ogre as opposed to the MM 6 skill point Ogre.

So, what does the article really say about this?

 

[Regdar]

Typical Ogre

Abilities: Str 21, Dex 8, Con 15, Int 6, Wis 10, Cha 7
Skills: Climb +4, Listen +2, Spot +2

Regdar says you must remember these skills also include attribute adjustments.

Minimum 1 point per level x4 = 4 skill points = +2 Listen / Spot. The climbing is off.

 

[Zaukrie]

A question of a different sort, since I'm too lazy to do all the analysis you all do on balance issues. Anyone else miss monster size? S, M, L, H...I'd like to know if something is 7 feet tall, or 8 feet tall, etc. I saw many of you complement other books for doing something like this.

 

[smetzger]

Typical Ogre

Abilities: Str 21, Dex 8, Con 15, Int 6, Wis 10, Cha 7
Skills: Climb +4, Listen +2, Spot +2

Regdar says you must remember these skills also include attribute adjustments.

Minimum 1 point per level x4 = 4 skill points = +2 Listen / Spot. The climbing is off.

You forgot the armor check penalty.

Climb +5 (str) -3 (hide check penalty) +2 ranks = +4
Therefore, MM Ogre has 6 skill points. Which lines up with what the MM says is how the skill points were calculated.

 

[Regdar]

Yep, Regdar thinks your correct but doesn't see how he can have 6. Regdar doesn't have MM on hand.