Dragon PCs - weak, weak, weak

Grog

First Post
In Savage Species and the 3.5 Monster Manual, players gained the option to play the younger dragons as PCs. I was looking them over, and they just seem to be really subpar characters.

Take a young blue dragon. It has 12 hit dice and a +5 level adjustment, making it ECL 17. The benefits it gains are: +6 str, +4 con, +2 int, wis, and cha; a 6d8 DC 18 breath weapon; immunity to electricity; create/destroy water; +11 natural armor; and a dragon's natural attack routine.

The natural attack routine is a bite for 1d8+strength, 2 claws for 1d6+1/2 strength, and 2 wings for 1d4+1/2 strength. Even with 6 extra points of strength, that's going to be a piddly amount of damage compared to what a 17th level human fighter can dish out. The dragon won't be able to use a great deal of equipment, which means no armor, no weapons, no cloaks, no robes, etc. The breath weapon isn't really worth much - most CR 17 monsters will laugh at 6d8 points of electrical damage.

So what you end up with is a PC with less damage dealing ability than an equivalent level fighter, fewer hit points (+4 con is worth 24 extra HP, 5d10 averages more than that), perhaps a slightly better AC (if buffed with Mage Armor from the party wizard), worse saves (remember, no cloaks of resistance), and none of the cool dragon attack forms or feats (it's not big enough).

This seems very weak overall. Am I missing something that makes dragon PCs good? Because as it stands now, I see no reason to play one other than the RP value, and then only if your party doesn't mind dragging around some dead weight in combat for RP fun.
 

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agree

I agree with you, I've thought they were underpowered since I first read through Savage Species. I would like to hear some one defend them as playable in non RP situations....
 

Who says they can't use magic items? We're talking about magic here; stuff resizes to fit. If a horse can wear rings and bracers, a dragon can sure as hell do the same thing.
 

I don't think that there is anything to stop a dragon wearing cloaks etc.

The dragon will have the 17th level characters value of goods, so he can select things as per normal from that.

He has one of the best fly speeds around, giving him an option denied to the standard fighter who hasn't spent lots of magic

But most of all - style! Who wouldn't want to play a dragon? Obviously not a dragon spellcaster, but just a plain ole dragon could be lots of fun.

Naturally a dragon which can polymorph into human shape like a silver would be much more useful for adventuring purposes :)
 

draconomicon dragon can wear anything a PC can. same limits, same amounts, same restrictions.

don't forget that the dragon has Sorcerer levels and abilities!
 

As a matter of fact, this very issue came up last saturday. Coinciding with the recent release of the Draconomicon, my group has just begun an all-dragon-PC campaign. The setting itself allows for some balance in this regard: a pre-common races world of practically all dragons and a few reptillian subspecies.

After a long and extremely thorough debate, we came to the same conclusion most of you have: A PC can do anything a dragon can do but much better.

We compared the ECL's to monsters of the same CR and found that we couldn't beat their SR, DR, AC or versatility. 20% of our resources? Fah, try 120%! It gets worse when you try to go into Epic ECL's. Much worse.

We're basically big melee machines. The paltry spell selection doesn't make up for the lack of high-level casters in the group when facing high-level monsters. What versatility we do have can be matched by any PC of 4 levels lower than our ECL. And the worst part of all? Lots of hit points... no healing. :(

Then came the issue of equipping our dragons. If we go by PC gear value, we end up with dragons with FAR more horde value than a dragon of 5 age categories above us. In a world of mostly dragons, this would be a problem.
 

Velenne said:
Then came the issue of equipping our dragons. If we go by PC gear value, we end up with dragons with FAR more horde value than a dragon of 5 age categories above us. In a world of mostly dragons, this would be a problem.

Thats fine. Thats the same situation you have with PHB races and NPCs and PCs.
 

AuraSeer said:
Who says they can't use magic items? We're talking about magic here; stuff resizes to fit. If a horse can wear rings and bracers, a dragon can sure as hell do the same thing.

A horse can wear rings? How could they possibly put them on?

Bracers I could see, but not rings.
 

Plane Sailing said:
I don't think that there is anything to stop a dragon wearing cloaks etc.

I realize it's magic we're talking about here, but I think you have to apply at least a little common sense. How could a dragon possibly wear a cloak? Put its wings through the arm holes?

Magic items size to fit the wearer; they don't shape to fit the wearer.
 


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