Dragon Subscription - UK

[wighair]

this just smells bad. I'm suprised nothing has been posted in the front page news about this. I'm sure a LOT of people would like to know what's going on. i don't subscribe, as I live 5 mins away from a great FLGS, but I'm sure many many people subscribe and still haven't got a clue where their mags are or what is happening.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

this just smells bad. I'm suprised nothing has been posted in the front page news about this. I'm sure a LOT of people would like to know what's going on. i don't subscribe, as I live 5 mins away from a great FLGS, but I'm sure many many people subscribe and still haven't got a clue where their mags are or what is happening.

Ummm, it was posted on the EN news front page, Feb12:


Magazines & Periodicals

* This e-mail was sent to a UK subscriber by Johnny L Wilson, President of Paizo Publishing:

"We have no possible way of sending magazines to anyone in Europe. We are frantically trying to get the information so we can refund your money."

This subject has been debated at length on the messageboards, with many Eurpoean subscribers wondering where their magazines are. Johnny Wilson had this to say a few weeks ago:

"I regret to state that this was an unexpected state of events, complicated by Euro-privacy laws. All three companies want to get this settled, but it is a tricky dance. We are precluded by law from offering details on this, but there is intent on all sides to make sure we fix the situation--even if that simply means refunding the balances and starting over with a new UK subscription agent. However, it is not something that can be fixed unilaterally by any of the three companies. I am tremendously sorry for the inconvenience and for not anticipating the problem. Please don't write off the entire company because of my failure to comprehend a complex situation in advance. "

And here we went into more detail:

"As for the UK situation, this is a misunderstanding between three different companies. One company has all the money. Another has all the names and addresses. Another is responsible for printing the magazines. One cannot give the names and addresses out because of Euro privacy laws. The other didn't understand some billing it was receiving and the other can't afford to print, ship copies overseas and pay for a subscription agent, as well as Euro postage, until the billing/revenue issues are resolved. NO ONE--Hasbro, MRM or Paizo wants to "rip off" the existing subscribers. The delay is due to the delicate dance between three different companies across an international dance floor covered with regulation and potential for misunderstanding. It will be fixed. We just don't know WHEN."

It still stinks, just don't want you blaming Morrus and Co. for not telling you. The Paizo Publishing purchase of Dragon and Dungeon was a hurried affair, brought about by circumstances. The other option was letting the magazines fold, which is what Hasbro/WoTC were originally looking at. Anything rushed has mistakes, I hope they get everything fixed soon though.

The Auld Grump

The Auld Grump

 

[Ranger REG]

Sounds like Hasbro UK offices are screwing with both Paizo and the UK subscribers.

I'd say Hasbro HQ, located in the US, should do something about those employees in Hasbro UK, perhaps give them an order to release the money and subscription account or terminate their employment.

As soon as that fiasco with Hasbro UK is resolved, the sooner Paizo can find a new UK company willing to service the UK subscribers.

That's who you should focus your anger, EnglishScribe. Hasbro UK, who has been under investigation in your country.

 

[Merlin]

Of course you are right about Hasbro UK, but the problem is they already have the money and will not have subscribers in the future. So what is the reason why they should hand over the money?
Of course you could start legal action and if you are in the UK this may really be an option, but if you are outside the UK then this is simply impossible (it's just more expensive than just forgetting the subscription money).

So the only further path of action can then be for us to actually blame Paizo, because they want to do futher business with us and thus are more interested to look for our money.

Actually, I'm already in a state where I'd be ready to forget my subscription if they manage to start a European distribution again. Of course I'd still want them to get my money back, but it would just be nice to know that there will be a way to receive future magazines

 

[SHARK]

Greetings!

Hmmm...I am not a Lawyer, but here in the United States of America, if you, a customer, pay money for a product, and said product is not delivered, you can then retain the services of a Lawyer and sue the company for FRAUD in a court of law.

Perhaps if many of you hire a lawyer to make a class-action lawsuit against UK Hasbro/Hasbro Europe, you may receive attention, and satisfaction.

At least here in America, getting a Lawyer to begin proceedings against a company is remarkably effective at lighting a fire and motivating a company to respond promptly.

Best of luck in these matters to all concerned!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

 

[Ranger REG]

Look, I want to be concerned about your plight, even though I live in America. I'm sure that Paizo (a small company consists of former Wizards periodical department) is trying to resolve this, but the other two companies, including the one based in the UK, are delaying this.

Paizo wants to do business in the international market. It would be stupid of them not to.

You would think that after Wizards sold their assets to Paizo, things would work smoothly after a rough transition. But for some stupid reasons, the other two companies either do not recognize the legitimacy of Paizo or something is preventing them from resolving the issue.

Now, if someone can point to me about this privacy law in Europe, then perhaps I can either understand why or determine if that is NOT the case.

 

[Merlin]

Hmm, I don't think privacy laws here are the problems, as I already pointed out.
The only privacy law I know of which could make problems here is the law that prohibits a company to give customer information to another company without consent of the customer. Now this should not be really a problem here, because I don't think any subscriber would objects. All they'd have to do would be to send them a letter to ask if this is ok.

An I don't think that Paizo has something to do with it either, at least nor directly. I could imagine it's more something like Hasbro US sells their magazine to Paizo for publishing. This of course changes where and how much money flows. Hasbro UK does not agree to that deal, but they cannot do something, at least in the US. But in the UK, they simply block things. They have the money, but because the deail is not in their favor, they block it, possibly to try to get a better deal. Now, the distributor has the addresses, but as long as he doesn't get money, they wont do anything (that also explains why the first several issues went thrugh, I assume the distributor was already paid for distributing them, so he did).

So, I think Hasbro UK makes the problems. After, they have the money, right?

The thing with the lawyers is not easy. First of all, Hasbro UK is in a foreign country for me, so a lawyer gets expensive, VERY expensive here in Switzerland (Fr. 250/h is about 175$/h). So thats a solution that does not work for me. It may be a good idea for UK subscribers, though. And I would probably also benefit from it ;-)

 

[Blacksway]

The privacy law mentioned is the data protection laws in the UK, which prohibit the UK distribution company giving Paizo (a US firm) our names and addresses without our express permission (which they don't have).

Therefore Paizo cannot continue to provide the subscription through a different company as they cannot get hold of our details.

 

[Blacksad]

and Paizo can't ask them to send us letter to ask for permission?
They could even pay for those letter!

I wonder if those who pay the ads in the magazine aren't interested by European customer and just pay the same price with only American customer, and given the price of the magazine, it might just be more cost effective to dump the European market

 

[TimSmith]

So, is the answer for us all to write to the distributor and allow them (no, request them) to give our details to Paizo?

Unfortunately, though, it seems that Hasbro UK is effectively making off with our subscription balances, so I guess the distribution company will not want to cooperate and Paizo will not be able to get paid if they send us our rightful stuff, like Merlin said.

Hmm, seems like I was thinking a bit harshly of Paizo. Although you would think it would behoove them to have sorted Europe out as part of the deal, if its all been a rush job to rescue the mags and they (like us) are getting shafted by Hasbro UK then I can understand it.

What I don't understand is how Hasbro UK can get away with holding our money if they are not going to supply the service we paid for. In my case it is only a few months worth that I am losing out on- certainly not worth a lawyer, but maybe worth getting Trading Standards involved.

The annoying thing now is that we will not be able to get the benefits of subscription (delivery to the door, cheaper price and extra content) without paying more for post and packing than the magazine is costing us! Those of you who don't have a local games shop (like me) may like to know that WHSmiths (and I guess other newsagents) can get you the mags without paying ridiculous postage, BUT I assume we won't get the subscription content.