Dragonball Z Questions

[Villano]

Okay, the last episode of Dragonball Z aired on Toonami recently, bringing an end to what is possibly the longest running (episode number-wise) series Cartoon Network has had.

Personally, I felt the final two episodes were slightly disappointing. Goku hasn't seen Krillin in 10 yrs? Goku leaves his family to train Uub? And could they have had a worse voice for adult Videl?

Although, I do have to admit that the end run of the Majin Buu Saga gave me a new appreciation for Hercule. Okay, "new appreciation" is an understatement. I hated the guy when he first appeared. But, by the end of the series, he became one of my favorites.

Anyway, getting to the questions, is this the end of Dragonball or is Cartoon Network planning to bring in Dragonball GT? I find it hard to believe that Cartton Network wouldn't pick it up since DBZ is one of their biggest shows.

Also, the series ended during the Budokai (World Martial Arts Tournament). Does anyone know who won it? I mean, it's obvious that whoever won would throw the match for Hercule (aka Mr. Satan), but is there an official rundown of the competition?

Normally, such a thing wouldn't provoke me to ask on a website, but surfing the net, looking for websites that give anime reviews, I stumbled upon a DBZ site that gave the rundown of the tournament as this (it uses the original Japanese character names, btw...also, it was in chart form, so I rewrote it and added comments):


ROUND 1:

Pan vs Kekko (I think this guy was called "Tiger" something in the US)

Winner: Pan

---
Goku vs Uub

No winner: Double DQ when they both left the tournament

---
Chickan (Captain Chicken in the US?) vs Kirno

No Winner: Double DQ when they both fled the tournament

---
Goten vs Buu

Winner: Buu

---
Trunks vs Otaku

Winner: Trunks

---
Vegeta vs Nok

Winner: Vegeta (Knocking Nok out before competition)


ROUND 2:

Pan advances because no winner in previous match

---
Buu advances because no winner in previous match

---
Trunks vs Vegeta

Winner: Vegeta


ROUND 3:

Pan vs Buu

Winner Buu

---
Vegeta advances because there isn't anyone for him to fight


ROUND 4:

Vegeta vs Buu

Winner: Buu


FINALS:

Buu vs Mr Satan (Hercule)

Winner: Mr Satan (via thrown fight)


Now, I have a couple problems with this list since, first, the number of competitors seems off as Vegeta advances without any competition in Round 3. I don't have the episode on tape to check, so that may be accurate (if the animators didn't intend to show the entire competition, they may not have bothered to have thought it out all that well).

However, my big problem with the rundown is that it doesn't jibe with something I recall from the episode. Namely, we see Pan vs Goten, with Pan the surprising winner (she's seen slapping Goten and later has her arm raised in victory by Trunks). This throws the above chart totally off.

I wasn't driven by a great need to know when I watched the episode, but after seeing this chart, well, it's starting to bug me!

Anyone know?

On another note, I recently picked up a copy of DBZ Budokai for the PS2. Great game! You can enact the entire series up to the Cell Games, fight in the World Tournaments, or play "The Legend Of Hercule", where you can see Hercule's version of just what really happened at the Cell Games.

 

[Black Omega]

Okay, the last episode of Dragonball Z aired on Toonami recently, bringing an end to what is possibly the longest running (episode number-wise) series Cartoon Network has had.

Very likely. The CN version came out to about 275 eps. The Japanese release hit 291, but alot was edited for the US to make it more kid friendly

Personally, I felt the final two episodes were slightly disappointing. Goku hasn't seen Krillin in 10 yrs? Goku leaves his family to train Uub? And could they have had a worse voice for adult Videl?

It's hardly the first time in the series Goku went away for years. Remember at the start of DBZ when Goku shows up with 5 year old Gohan, everyone is surprised he has a son.

I'm sure there could have been a worse voice for Videl, though I missed that thanks to watching the Japanese release for the final Buu arc, so I've never heard the dubbed voiced used for that.

I know others who were also disappointed with the end. It's really more a wind down from the big ending where Buu dies, while leaving things open for later adventures.

Although, I do have to admit that the end run of the Majin Buu Saga gave me a new appreciation for Hercule. Okay, "new appreciation" is an understatement. I hated the guy when he first appeared. But, by the end of the series, he became one of my favorites.

Agreed. In Cell Games and the early part of Buu Saga he's a arrogent, egotistical, credit stealing jerk. He goes through alot of changes, though he never quits being egotistical, he does turn into a basicly decent guy caught in a legend of his own making while knowing he's not nearly as good as his fans think he is.

And like I told some friends, only in anime will you find the whole world chanting 'Satan! Satan!' and it's a good thing.

Anyway, getting to the questions, is this the end of Dragonball or is Cartoon Network planning to bring in Dragonball GT? I find it hard to believe that Cartton Network wouldn't pick it up since DBZ is one of their biggest shows.

It's not a question of if, but when. I've been told it could start on Cartoon Network by April 29th, at the earliest, most likely May or June. But I've found nothing straight from Cartoon Network on this. But the DB GT DVD set is coming out now out, so the dubbed eps (appropriately edited, I'm sure) are at least partially complete. DB GT is only 63 eps, unlike DBZ which nearly made it to 300.

Also, the series ended during the Budokai (World Martial Arts Tournament). Does anyone know who won it? I mean, it's obvious that whoever won would throw the match for Hercule (aka Mr. Satan), but is there an official rundown of the competition?

No, but the DBZ and DB GT series don't really do it nearly like DB did. Mr. Satan won the tournament after Buu let him win, but aside from that...good question. I've not seen the Cartoon Network version, hopefully there wasn't anything about 'Hercule' tricking Buu into letting him win. The dubbed Buu is less intelligent than the Japanese Buu.

Now, I have a couple problems with this list since, first, the number of competitors seems off as Vegeta advances without any competition in Round 3. I don't have the episode on tape to check, so that may be accurate (if the animators didn't intend to show the entire competition, they may not have bothered to have thought it out all that well).

What you saw may have been from the manga, I've not looked at that for some time. But my impression is that with Goku out, Vegita wasn't even going to bother with the tournament. Most of the people there he'd beat without any challenge. That's why he wanted Goku in the first round.

However, my big problem with the rundown is that it doesn't jibe with something I recall from the episode. Namely, we see Pan vs Goten, with Pan the surprising winner (she's seen slapping Goten and later has her arm raised in victory by Trunks). This throws the above chart totally off.

Correct. This might just be a difference between the manga and anime.

I wasn't driven by a great need to know when I watched the episode, but after seeing this chart, well, it's starting to bug me!

What's the address for this chart?

 

[Villano]

Re: Re: Dragonball Z Questions

It's hardly the first time in the series Goku went away for years. Remember at the start of DBZ when Goku shows up with 5 year old Gohan, everyone is surprised he has a son.

Your absolutely right about that. Of course, I didn't really notice since the time passed between series.

I'm sure there could have been a worse voice for Videl, though I missed that thanks to watching the Japanese release for the final Buu arc, so I've never heard the dubbed voiced used for that.[/B]

The voice was done by what sounds like the same woman who did her teenage voice, but done with, well, I can't really explain it. It was just weird sounding.

I know others who were also disappointed with the end. It's really more a wind down from the big ending where Buu dies, while leaving things open for later adventures.[/B]

Speaking of the final battle with Buu, I loved the cameos by a bunch of the characters from Dragonball, like the Indians, Native American, Eighter, Baba's fighters, etc.

I actually did wonder whatever happened to Eighter.

Agreed. In Cell Games and the early part of Buu Saga he's a arrogent, egotistical, credit stealing jerk. He goes through alot of changes, though he never quits being egotistical, he does turn into a basicly decent guy caught in a legend of his own making while knowing he's not nearly as good as his fans think he is.

And like I told some friends, only in anime will you find the whole world chanting 'Satan! Satan!' and it's a good thing.

I love playing Hercule in the DBZ game. There's something strangely satisfying about seeing him K.O. Freiza.

It's not a question of if, but when. I've been told it could start on Cartoon Network by April 29th, at the earliest, most likely May or June. But I've found nothing straight from Cartoon Network on this. But the DB GT DVD set is coming out now out, so the dubbed eps (appropriately edited, I'm sure) are at least partially complete. DB GT is only 63 eps, unlike DBZ which nearly made it to 300.

I'll certainly be looking forward to it.

No, but the DBZ and DB GT series don't really do it nearly like DB did. Mr. Satan won the tournament after Buu let him win, but aside from that...good question. I've not seen the Cartoon Network version, hopefully there wasn't anything about 'Hercule' tricking Buu into letting him win. The dubbed Buu is less intelligent than the Japanese Buu.

The tournament was handled in a kind of montage. We only see still pictures, snapshots, of the events. Buu and Hercule are best buds, so Buu probably threw it out of friendship.

What you saw may have been from the manga, I've not looked at that for some time. But my impression is that with Goku out, Vegita wasn't even going to bother with the tournament. Most of the people there he'd beat without any challenge. That's why he wanted Goku in the first round.

That's interesting. One idea I had from looking at the chart and the "Goten vs Pan" scenes was that, if the starting line-up is correct, then Pan and Goten may have actually made it to the finals.

Personally, I think they should have ended it with Pan K.O.ing Hercule in the finals.

What's the address for this chart?

http://groups.msn.com/BrandonssitetoallthatisDBZ/_whatsnew.msnw?pgmarket=en-us
Lots of stuff there including power levels of the characters. I found it interesting that Hercule's is 150. It puts his "weakling" status in perspective. Sure he looks weak compared to the 40,000,000 some characters possess, but Master Roshi only has a 140.

 

[Alzrius]

Anyway, getting to the questions, is this the end of Dragonball or is Cartoon Network planning to bring in Dragonball GT? I find it hard to believe that Cartton Network wouldn't pick it up since DBZ is one of their biggest shows.

Funimation announced their plans in regard to this a while ago. Cartoon Network is going to re-broadcast all of DBZ, from beginning to end, one episode per day, during 2003, in preparation for DBGT (this was announced last Sept., and I don't know if things have changed since then). When this concludes, then DBGT will premier on Cartoon Network...in 2004.

In the meantime, DBGT is going to be released to DVD directly (in fact, AFAIK, the first disc goes on sale today). One thing that seems confirmed is that the DVDs will initially skip the first 15 episodes or so, delving right into the fighting action.

Normally, such a thing wouldn't provoke me to ask on a website, but surfing the net, looking for websites that give anime reviews, I stumbled upon a DBZ site that gave the rundown of the tournament as this:

[...]

However, my big problem with the rundown is that it doesn't jibe with something I recall from the episode. Namely, we see Pan vs Goten, with Pan the surprising winner (she's seen slapping Goten and later has her arm raised in victory by Trunks). This throws the above chart totally off.

As a general rule, internet sources are notoriously unreliable on this sort of thing. Probably your only real hope here is to get that episode on DVD, or buy the manga somewhere. Anything else is suspect.

 

[Black Omega]

Alzius: Funimation announced their plans in regard to this a while ago. Cartoon Network is going to re-broadcast all of DBZ, from beginning to end, one episode per day, during 2003, in preparation for DBGT (this was announced last Sept., and I don't know if things have changed since then). When this concludes, then DBGT will premier on Cartoon Network...in 2004.

Nice to know for certain, thanks. I'm a little disappointed the series is skipping so much to start, but I can kinda see the reasoning.

I just finished watching all of DB GT myself. It's well worth a look. The series has gotten a bad rep in some ways, but it's not entirely deserved. The three basic storylines all make good sense, and tie into things from the past. But they are executed badly. Very badly in spots. The pacing especially has trouble at times. But also some ideas well worth stealing. I have an idea for a shorter run campaign based loosely on the last story arc. And I -really- liked the final ep.

 

[Liminal Syzygy]

Can you give me a summary of the story arcs of GT? I mean generally are they more DB like romps around the world or fighting ever more escalating bad guys like DBZ?

To me the Freezer saga was the peak of DBZ, and it all went downhill from there (about the point Toriyama lost personal interest in doing it but couldn't or wouldn't withdraw)... but I'm probably a bit biased in that regard as I was reading that stuff when it was first coming out in Shonen Jump in '90/'91. And especially after the Cell arc I completely lost interest.

Just trying to determine if there is any chance I would enjoy it.

 

[Black Omega]

It's a mix. Toriyama has nothing to do with GT, for good or ill.

The first 15 eps or so more strongly resemble DB, with a small group traveling around to find the dragonballs, meeting people and helping them as they go. It's less action, and probably why it's being skipped for the DVD release.

From there it starts to be more like DBZ, with ever escalating power levels and longer fights.

 

[Villano]

To me the Freezer saga was the peak of DBZ, and it all went downhill from there (about the point Toriyama lost personal interest in doing it but couldn't or wouldn't withdraw)... but I'm probably a bit biased in that regard as I was reading that stuff when it was first coming out in Shonen Jump in '90/'91. And especially after the Cell arc I completely lost interest.

Really? I actually prefer the later DBZ that focused on Gohan. I think the characters were a bit more developed during this time.

Gohan's reluctant training of Videl (and their blossoming romance), Vegeta's inner turmoil against becoming one of the good guys, Hercule's growing legend, the fact that the Grand Kai wildly underestimated the power of the Saiyans resulting in the whole Majin Buu debacle, and the fact that Trunks and Goten were more interesting kids than Gohan was as a child.

Or, maybe it's just the fact that, in the early shows, it took 4 half hour episodes for 10 minutes to pass. You know what I'm talking about. On Monday's episode, someone says, "The planet's going to explode in 10 minutes!" By Friday's show, not only is the planet still intact, but someone will state that they only have 5 more minutes left until it does.

Yeah, I know it was the whole "they didn't want to get ahead of the comic" thing, but it really caused the series to drag for me.

 

[Black Omega]

Vegeta's inner turmoil against becoming one of the good guys,

Probably my favorite thing. Vegita did the slowest change from bad guy to good guy I can recall. Going from planet destroying baddie to 'we're fighting the same guy, so we can work together, but then i'll crush you' to 'you are more powerful now, but just wait'... If you like the rivalry with Vegita and Goku, there's a bit in DB GT you'll probably like alot.

Hercule's growing legend

It probably helped that Toriyama said he had a ton of fun doing stuff with Mr. Satan/Hercule.

fact that Trunks and Goten were more interesting kids than Gohan was as a child.

I like Gohan alot. In terms of sheer power he's the top for much of the series. but his self-doubts get in the way of that.

Yeah, I know it was the whole "they didn't want to get ahead of the comic" thing, but it really caused the series to drag for me.

I thought Frieza Saga had some serious problems with pacing and the final battle was -way- to long. And I thought that about some battles in DB GT as well. So if you really liked Frieza Saga then that might mean you'll like GT as well.

 

[Chauzu]

Re: Re: Re: Dragonball Z Questions

Lots of stuff there including power levels of the characters. I found it interesting that Hercule's is 150. It puts his "weakling" status in perspective. Sure he looks weak compared to the 40,000,000 some characters possess, but Master Roshi only has a 140.

Power levels given after the death of cyborg freeza and king kold are incorrect as none are given, even by Toriyama. Those are just a bunch of one of the many guessed power level lists on the web. Don't be too interested in them.