D&D General Dragonborn Physical Features

[CleverNickName]

Though I agree, dragonborn and draconians are wildly different, especially as the latter were never meant to be PC characters

I've seen draconians mentioned several times in this thread but I'm not very familiar with them. What edition/setting did they come from? And how are they "wildly different" from dragonborn?

 

[Scribe]

I've seen draconians mentioned several times in this thread but I'm not very familiar with them. What edition/setting did they come from? And how are they "wildly different" from dragonborn?

Draconian

Types of Draconian: Aurak Baaz Bozak Kapak Sesk Sivak Traag (Proto-Draconian) Draconians, also known as dragonmen, are vile monstrosities resembling a cross between a humanoid and a dragon. These creatures were created from the corrupted eggs of good dragons. Originally serving as special troops...

adnd2e.fandom.com

Dragonlance.

 

[Mind of tempest]

I'm sorry but they are not close at all. Lizardmen and Dragonborn are closer, and Lizardmen make a ton more sense as a core option/trope.

how are the lizardmen more useful as a core option they basically are happy with nothing ever happening they do not build anything or pursue ambitions they feel like a facultative sophont in comparison to everything else obligate?

 

[Mind of tempest]

They are not limited, they serve the purpose they are intended for, and its timeless.

The issue with new options, is that 'setting integration' is bespoke. Dragonborn have no purpose in Middle-Earth. They have no purpose in Krynn, I mean honestly they are wildly out of place in Krynn since you know, Draconians, stolen Eggs, the whole motivator around the Dragons...

Can a setting be designed to include them? Absolutely, but are they actually foundational at all? Not at all.

nothing in this or any other world can be timeless.

dude I could shoot every halfling in Fr or greyhawk and the game bearly changes only two are core demi-humans

 

[Scribe]

how are the lizardmen more useful as a core option they basically are happy with nothing ever happening they do not build anything or pursue ambitions they feel like a facultative sophont in comparison to everything else obligate?

They better represent tropes of an alien mindset, 'other' and potentially different than the core of the genre.

 

[cbwjm]

I've seen draconians mentioned several times in this thread but I'm not very familiar with them. What edition/setting did they come from? And how are they "wildly different" from dragonborn?

They're from dragonlance, have wildly different abilities, some bloodlines have wings, and all of them made better enemies than PCs since the various abilities where hindrances to the enemy when the draconian died (such as turning to stone on death and trapping the killing blade in their body).

I'm one of those who doesn't like using dragonborn as draconians, they have a different feel. If I did run a dragonlance game, I wouldn't include dragonborn at all.

 

[Scribe]

nothing in this or any other world can be timeless.

Disagree, fundamentally. We are not changed, and things which were true for men in the ancient world, remain true for us.

 

[Mind of tempest]

They better represent tropes of an alien mindset, 'other' and potentially different than the core of the genre.

they fail to have much in the way of cool factor or the ability to do plot-relevant things.

Disagree, fundamentally. We are not changed, and things which were true for men in the ancient world, remain true for us.

and yet things die off as ideas, stories fade to lost text and such, we have barely changed but what we do has.
secondly why not seek to make something more timeless in addition why not more?
the ents did not catch on thus even something very middle-earth derived has a slot of people missing or waiting to be filled

 

[Scribe]

they fail to have much in the way of cool factor or the ability to do plot-relevant things.

glances over at the formative works for Fantasy I guess we disagree.

and yet things die off as ideas, stories fade to lost text and such, we have barely changed but what we do has.

Meditations is still selling. Same with the Tao Te Ching.

secondly why not seek to make something more timeless in addition why not more?

I think plenty of folks are trying to do just that. I believe in the 'platonic ideal' of what I consider Fantasy, and I do seek to publish it.

the ents did not catch on thus even something very middle-earth derived has a slot of people missing or waiting to be filled

I think Ents are still a thing, but its always hard to associate with a slow moving, slow talking, eternal tree.

 

[CleverNickName]

The questions about wings and flight are interesting, too. Maybe I'll do a poll someday about whether dragonborn wings should be completely cosmetic, or extend your Jump distance, or reduce fall damage, or give a Fly speed, or something else.

Same for tails: should they be purely cosmetic? should they grant advantage on Athletics checks to resist being knocked prone? should they be fully prehensile and able to grip weapons? could/should they have spikes or spurs, and if so, would that allow a dragonborn make Tail attacks? What if they had rattles on them like some snakes, and could be used for Intimidate checks?

I don't know why I'm fascinated with (fixated upon?) dragonborn physiology all of a sudden, but that's just how my brain works. Best to just roll with it.