Dragonlance, do you like it?

[Angel Tarragon]

I love Dragonlance, but not so much to use it as a primary campaign setting,more as a secondary. That option should have been included in the poll.

 

[Buttercup]

No. Kender=teh eval!!!111

Seriously, I don't find Kender or Gully Dwarves amusing in the slightest. They taint the whole setting for me. Then too, I don't care for Larry Elmore's art, and I can't separate the setting from his imagery in my mind.

 

[Cam Banks]

I have never seen anything that rode the choo-choo as hard as DL. Christ, you couldn't deviate from the pre-planned course of the adventures, you couldn't kill a major bad guy ahead of the planned moment of his fall, for what, 14 modules or something???- what other adventure has had these features?

The original modules were actually very open-ended and incorporated many different alternate pathways to the ending. As one of the first attempts by TSR at bringing in an epic storyline and letting the player characters decide how it turns out, it was beset by a few problems, but it has influenced every adventure series since. It's perhaps because of this that people find it cliched; or perhaps folks these days don't notice that any adventure with a plot, a bad guy at the end, and some monsters in the middle is as railroading as the original modules were.

I've heard some convincing arguments about heavy-handedness in the first module, DL1, which kicks the campaign off by sending the heroes off to Xak Tsaroth with the blue crystal staff in order to recover the Disks of Mishakal. After that point, however, the heavy-handedness starts to take a back seat. Each adventure has a goal, the heroes have a number of ways to achieve the goal, and in many of the modules the specifics of the goal (and the plot behind it) are up to the DM to decide based on a list of options. Indeed, the means of defeating the Dark Queen at the end of DL14 was not fixed, which means you could play through the adventures more than once and not have the storyline remain the same at all.

The accusation of Dragonlance being a heavy-handed railroadfest is therefore, I believe, an exaggeration. I don't see any adventure path series on the market now that doesn't have these same elements, and in fact I don't see many which have the feature of multiple potential outcomes or plots. The celebrated Shackled City series which has recently been put together is one long plotline with a specific set of bad guys, plots, and an ending. If you deviate too far from that, the ending never happens either. So, why is it shocking to see it in a series of modules that are 21 years old?

Cheers,
Cam

 

[Steel_Wind]

I'd like an answer to this too...

Christ, you couldn't deviate from the pre-planned course of the adventures, you couldn't kill a major bad guy ahead of the planned moment of his fall, for what, 14 modules or something???- what other adventure has had these features?

If you are referring to the "obscure death" rule, that was a story telling device put into the module series early on. As the product line hit the market, a number of DMs and players complained about it.

By the time the market feedback was received by TSR - they changed the products not yet released to address this concern in 1985 starting with DL8 - Dragons of War. (A module that includes the map to the largest castle yet created for an RPG, I might add)

It's not that it's a *wholly* bad idea. The obscure death plot device is a cinematic and comic book story telling trick that many DMs use in their campaigns from time to time - and they continue to do so even - gasp - in 2005. As a matter or fact, it is suggested as as advanced and "artful" DM trick often on ENWorld.

CRPG designers use the rule often and for the same reason. As a matter of fact, WotC continues in 2005 to require a variant of the rule to be used for any "named characters" who might be engaged in licensed Forgotten Realms computer game products as a condition of licensing approval. See? You learn something new every day...

However, as an inflexible "rule" it surely sucks. There are many DMs who can do this artfully so that the "man behind the curtain" remains hidden from view and the game is advanced happily and enjoyably for all.

And then there are those who will screw it up horribly and their attempt to use the device will break the suspension of disbelief on the part of the players. Can't win for losing on that one.

The "rule" itslf - if it ever was one - was removed in the series in DL8. So for the last half of the classic module series - even "by the book" there was no such rule in DragonLance.

But don't let my facts confuse your hat that know no limit. By all means - continue to react

 

[Steel_Wind]

People react to a present day 3.5 campaign setting, based on their experience with a story telling device 20 years ago.

It struck me as highly ironic that on the "name some cool power of a monster" thread, I posted earlier this week this one from DragonLance 3.5:

From the Special Attack of the Shadow Wight, a creature detailed in the ENnie Award winning Bestiary of Krynn

(The touch of a Shadow Wight drains 1d8 charisma. A creature reduced to 0 char is subject to oblivion.)

Oblivion: An opponent who has his charisma reduced to 0 vanishes, leaving only his clothes and possessions behind. The memory of the one so destroyed is wiped from the minds of any and all who knew him - erasing the creature from history as if he or she had never existed. No form of healing, resurrection, restoration or even a wish is capable of reviving anyone who has been effected by oblivion.

Does present day 3.5 DragonLance sound like an obscure-death-ressurect -em-all- whenever-you-like campaign setting to you?

I think not.

 

[Razuur]

I think there should have been another option of OTHER.

I chose Yes, but only because it was closest.

Ansalon is *IN* my campaign world, but it is not the primary continent. It is one of the vast tapestry that makes up my homebrew.

Razuur

 

[DragonLancer]

No. Kender=teh eval!!!111

Seriously, I don't find Kender or Gully Dwarves amusing in the slightest. They taint the whole setting for me. Then too, I don't care for Larry Elmore's art, and I can't separate the setting from his imagery in my mind.

Goes to show how tastes vary. I find Elmore's art to be one of the things that makes the DL feel for me. I guess its because he was so prolific with it back in the day, and its coloured my view of the setting since then.

Not to ignore the fact that I really like his artwork.

 

[Cam Banks]

Does present day 3.5 DragonLance sound like an obscure-death-ressurect -em-all- whenever-you-like campaign setting to you?

I think not.

The frost dragon's even scarier. It has that ability on top of everything else.

Cheers,
Cam

 

[Razuur]

As a playable world... it isn't. Not only is the metaplot inescapable, it's too thick for the PCs to meaningfully affect. There's no real continuity of sourcebooks, because of how drastically the setting changes every couple of years-- for comparison, the Forgotten Realms has had a number of major plot events that changed the campaign world, but none of those completely reshaped the world's cosmology or stripped (semi-permanently) the abilities of the player characters.

I have never understood this personally. Not attacking, but just simply don't get it. Any metaplot is inescapable... it it your world. Do with it as you will. Don't like the post WOS stuff, send the setting spirallying off into your own direction. Mine newer books and supps for ideas and charas to incorporate...

Dragonlance can be your world (or FR, or Tal, or IK, or Midnight... whatever). The only thing stopping it from being your world is you.

Take ownership! Forge your own brave new directions and legends.

Dragonlance (or any other campaign) is about spirit, not about dictating what is official and what is not.

Just my opinion.

Razuur

 

[Razuur]

This seems to be subject to personal view. I have no problems with completely ignoring the metaplot of the Forgotten Realms; I always find a part of the world that's worth playing in. With Dragonlance, it's different: Here the metaplot kills the setting for me *shrug*.

I think this is a flavor thing. And we all enjoy different ones.

I thought the original FR grey boxed set was great and fit what I wanted. Then as each additional edition came out, I didn't enjoy the flavor as much. That is personal taste. I could run FR again, but then i would make it my FR.

The same with dragonlance. I have never really cared for tinker gnomes.. so you know what? They are gone from my ansalon!

But if the initial flavor isn't working for you, find a world that it does and take ownership there!

Razuur