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D&D General [Dragonlance/Faerun] Anyone here met any Cataclysm/Wall of the Faithless defenders?

Alzrius

The EN World kitten
From memory you could only be raised within 1d10 days if you were faithless/false.
I'm not sure about earlier editions, but as per page 259 of the 3e Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting (affiliate link) it says this:

As part of his agreement with the baatezu, Kelemvor allows a few groups of devils to torment the citizens of the city. There is no respite for the False unless Kelemvor wills it, and in his tenure he has not been known to change his mind. Furthermore, once Kelemvor has made his judgment, the soul cannot be raised or resurrected without the intervention of a deity (represented by at least the use of a miracle or wish spell), who will almost certainly have to negotiate with Kelemvor.
 

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Voadam

Legend
From memory you could only be raised within 1d10 days if you were faithless/false.
Good memory. :)

3.0 Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting Page 290:
A character who has chosen a patron deity can be brought back from the dead by all the normal methods, provided the character is willing to return. The process is somewhat more difficult for a character who did not choose a patron deity in life.
Kelemvor, the god of the dead, eventually disposes of unclaimed souls, trapping them and making it impossible for them to return to life. This process of disposal takes 1d10 days. During this time, characters who died without a patron deity can be raised, resurrected, or reincarnated if the spell that brings them back is cast before Kelemvor deals with the soul. After this time, only a miracle or wish can restore the character to life.
Even if a player has not chosen a patron deity for his character before the character meets her death, the player can choose one at the time of the character’s death. If the player decides not to choose a patron once his character has died, the character is truly faithless and must take his chances with the rest of the unclaimed souls of the Fugue Plane. If the player decides to declare a patron, he should choose a deity the character has shown at least some interest in. Even if the character has never actively shown interest in any particular god, the way the character has been played usually will suggest a god. For example, a character of good alignment who has devoted himself to magic would naturally gravitate toward Mystra, whereas an adventurer of almost any class or alignment might naturally gravitate to Shaundakul if he had a zest for travel or exploration.
In short, there is one cardinal rule regarding characters and patron deities: Never punish a player for not writing down a patron deity on his character sheet.

In 2e Faiths and Avatars it does not address the issue directly. The closest I found was on page 3:

A person’s patron deity is the power that eventually escorts that person’s spirit from the Fugue Plain, the place where spirits go right after people die, to its afterlife as a petitioner in the Outer Planes in the realm (or at least the plane) of its patron deity. (Those who firmly deny any faith or have only given lip service most of their lives and never truly believed are known as the Faithless after death. They are formed into a living wall around the City of Strife—Kelemvor, the new lord of the dead, may soon rename it—in the realm of the dead in Oinos in the Gray Waste and left there until they dissolve. The unearthly greenish mold that holds the wall together eventually destroys them. The False, those who intentionally betrayed a faith they believed in and to which they made a personal commitment, are relegated to eternal punishment in the City of Strife after their case is ruled upon by Kelemvor in the Crystal Spire (Kelemvor’s abode in the City of Strife).
 

ok if you read myths almost all of the gods suck from a mortal perspective. The gods in Faerun and most fantasy games at least have good gods along with all the gods of other alignments. But yes in many ways they are no different from really high powered mortals. In some cases they are mortals who ascended, just like in the myths. some of em are crazy, some of em only care about themselves, some of them view mortals as tools to get shit done. That's the point. It's a world full of good and evil and some stuff is just freaking wrong and hero's rise up to do something about it. Either don't play in Faerun or have games where you support the gods like Lathander that want to change the way it runs. You might as well complain about how evil Orcs are and why would the dev's do that?

now if you want to go on about the stupidity of AO showing up and being the "Overgod" to balance things I'm all in to bitch about that

The problem is that Lathander doesn't want to change it. None of the Gods do. That is the problem.
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
The Cataclysm doesn't actually bother me that much.

The details don't matter, really. Human priests were on the verge of tyrannical rule over the whole world, forcing a stagnant world of Lawful Good stasis, without free will. The gods threw a mountain at them to stop it.

And then the decent gods went...man, that sucked. Maybe the world will be better off without us and without divine magic. Let's give that a try, see how it goes. And they left the world alone until Tahkisis was like, lol nah world domination suckers.

I'm mostly fine with that, tbh. Gods can be a bit brutal without being evil. Blowing up a big chunk of the world in order to stop an eternal empire without free will is brutal, not evil.
 


Zardnaar

Legend
Good memory. :)

3.0 Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting Page 290:


In 2e Faiths and Avatars it does not address the issue directly. The closest I found was on page 3:

Thanks I missed it last night. You are correct.

IMG_20201110_160425.jpg


Makes me laugh some people think FR is bland and generic others want to turn it into bland and generic by removing things like this and wild magic that makes it a bit more unique.
 


Zardnaar

Legend
Lathander especially learned his lesson. The last time he tried to change things for the better he ended up causing the Dawn Cataclysm

Way I look at it is it's better than the alternative.

The Eric L Boyd stuff and some of 3.0 FRCS was about the best FR got imho. Maybe grey box.

It's a bit anemic now and the adventures aren't even that good apart from a couple or 3.
 

A distantly-related question to the OP - has anyone actually USED the Wall of the Faithless in a game, ever?

I've always liked the idea of resurrection requiring a quest or journey into the underworld of some sort rather than just a 7th level spell and a wheelbarrow full of diamond dust, but as a matter of practicality in-game it has obvious problems. If a PC dies, traipsing off into Hades (or Kelemvor's domain, or the Grey, or wherever) tends to massively dislocate the existing storyline, not to mention the question about what the player of the dead PC does in the meantime. So in my experience, the spell gets cast, the PC gets raised, and the party goes on with whatever they were doing.

There might be adventures where there's a plot point of some sort where PCs might journey to the Wall of the Faithless to extract/rescue/raise/question some deceased NPC - but if there's any published ones I've never seen them.

TBH it just seems a bit like one of those weird setting eccentricities that gets largely ignored in gameplay.
 

Alzrius

The EN World kitten
The Eric L Boyd stuff and some of 3.0 FRCS was about the best FR got imho. Maybe grey box.
Eric L. Boyd's mastery of Realmslore is truly impressive. There's an anecdote I like to tell about an adventure he wrote, "Dungeon of the Crypt" for Dungeon magazine #127 (October, 2005), which featured a grisgol (Monster Manual III), a construct that's powered by a lich's phylactery with the lich sealed inside of it. A few issues later (#131), in response to a letter, Boyd actually detailed who the lich was and how they'd gotten there, despite that not being relevant to the adventure. It was truly impressive! (For those interested in further details, you can find them over at this old post of mine.)
 


Zardnaar

Legend
Wall haters will be pleased to note that the new errata to the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide, released today, entirely deletes that book's reference to the Wall of the Faithless—erasing the one and only reference to the Wall in published D&D 5e material.

Sigh. Not really that big a deal as no such .
 

jeremypowell

Explorer
My guess would be they killed off the Wall as part of their recent efforts to eliminate "problematic" elements from current game materials.

R.I.P. Wall of the Faithless.

(After it perished, the Wall was found to have denied the gods, and as punishment, its soul has been mortared into the Wall of Faithless Walls.)
 
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Alzrius

The EN World kitten
Wall haters will be pleased to note that the new errata to the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide, released today, entirely deletes that book's reference to the Wall of the Faithless—erasing the one and only reference to the Wall in published D&D 5e material.
For ease of reference, here's the section in question (the two paragraphs under the header "The Afterlife," on page 20), with the errata'd part struck through:

Most humans believe the souls of the recently deceased are spirited away to the Fugue Plane, where they wander the great City of Judgment, often unaware they are dead. The servants of the gods come to collect such souls and, if they are worthy, they are taken to their awaited afterlife in the deity's domain. Occasionally, the faithful are sent back to be reborn into the world to finish work that was left undone.

Souls that are unclaimed by the servants of the gods are judged by Kelemvor, who decides the fate of each one. Some are charged with serving as guides for other lost souls, while others are transformed into squirming larvae and cast into the dust. The truly false and faithless are mortared into the Wall of the Faithless, the great barrier that bounds the City of the Dead, where their souls slowly dissolve and begin to become part of the stuff of the Wall itself.
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Wall haters will be pleased to note that the new errata to the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide, released today, entirely deletes that book's reference to the Wall of the Faithless—erasing the one and only reference to the Wall in published D&D 5e material.
I’m not surprised. I’ve seen chatter in various places about it amongst younger gamers, long before this thread.

A lot of folks are tired of fiction trying to make them relive crap they deal with IRL, like being told they’re going to suffer cosmic punishment for not worshiping god/the right god.
 

Mirtek

Adventurer
Technically that doesn't get rid of the wall. In absence of newer lore stating the opposite, the old lore about the wall is still in effect. It merely precents someone stumbling upon it without deeper looking through FR material
 

Eltab

Is this a moon, or is it a space station?
Hm. Per the quote above, the 5e Wall is was not a torturous experience. It is was just a place to 'be' while your soul fades away.
 

Olrox17

Hero
Interesting. Through errata, the Wall gets censored (for lack of a better word) out of SCAG, presumably to avoid hurting somebody's feelings, but this phrase remains intact:
"Some [referring to unclaimed souls] are charged with serving as guides for other lost souls, while others are transformed into squirming larvae and cast into the dust". Like that's a better fate than the Wall! :LOL:

Whatever, WotC deciding to withhold lore details in a book doesn't change anything, anyway. The lore stays the same. Wasted opportunity on WotC's part to expand the Wall's lore, instead of clumsily sweeping it under the rug.
 

Interesting. Through errata, the Wall gets censored (for lack of a better word) out of SCAG, presumably to avoid hurting somebody's feelings, but this phrase remains intact:
"Some [referring to unclaimed souls] are charged with serving as guides for other lost souls, while others are transformed into squirming larvae and cast into the dust". Like that's a better fate than the Wall! :LOL:

Whatever, WotC deciding to withhold lore details in a book doesn't change anything, anyway. The lore stays the same. Wasted opportunity on WotC's part to expand the Wall's lore, instead of clumsily sweeping it under the rug.

Probably because that is referring to Evil souls heading to the Abyss. That is where soul larva live.
 

cbwjm

Hero
Probably because that is referring to Evil souls heading to the Abyss. That is where soul larva live.
It doesn't say that though, nothing in there mentions the Abyss or that this is where those squirming larvae will end up. In fact nothing about these souls mentions anything about whether or not they are evil, only that they are unclaimed by the gods. They could be paragons of virtue but they still suffer the same fate as the so-called evil souls.
 

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