Dragonlance [Dragonlance/Faerun] Anyone here met any Cataclysm/Wall of the Faithless defenders?

[Flamestrike]

Being slowly and torturously turned into a non-sentient brick is not the same thing as instantaneously joining the void and ceasing to exist.

Who said its torturous? I don't recall that being mentioned anywhere.

 

[Flamestrike]

Its a con racket to protect beings who shouldn't be there. Break down the wall, kill the gods, shatter their thrones.

NWN2, MotB used it as its big evil point and lemme tell you, it was perfect for it


The problem with the Cataclysm is moreso stuff around it. than the event itself. Big ol' meteor raining down death and destruction with such force the gods are uncontactable? That's the good stuff!

The instigator of this being word of the author "Good", alleged 'good' gods killing millions and withdrawing assistance, and then getting uppity when people rightfully say 'yo wtf'? Yeah, that's not 'Good' and ties into why Dragonlance handles alignments poorly

It wasn't the Good gods. It was the entire pantheon that approved it.

The Good gods acquiesced under protest, and after sending several warnings and signs and also tried to stop it via Lord Soth (but he turned his back on them to murder his wife out of jealousy.)

Even then the Good gods took the truly Good souls to heaven.

It was perfectly in line with Evil gods and also the Neutral ones (things had gotten out of balance).

 

[Flamestrike]

In neither of those cases, would they be found False.

False is for the hypocrites, for those who profess one faith, while living in contravention of it.

Someone who renounced their faith in a specific deity before death, but before formally committing to a new deity, would be treated the same as one who had never formally committed to any deity. . .that their soul would be up for grabs by deities of their alignment or with a portfolio similar to their profession or interests.

A random follower of Cyric, who repented, gave up faith in Cyric, atoned, and changed alignment, but never formally converted to a different religion, might well be claimed by a good-aligned deity that was an enemy of Cyric. . .Mystra, Tyr and Torm come to mind.

A Paladin of Torm that renounces violence and the faith of Torm, and does not purport to be a follower of Torm while being a pacifist, wouldn't be False, they aren't being hypocritical. Even if they never adopted another faith, it's pretty clear from alignment and philosophy that Ilmater would accept them in the afterlife.

A Paladin of Torm that publicly still held himself out to be a Paladin, carried the Holy Symbol, prayed for spells, functioned in the Church all as a Paladin, while being an avowed pacifist, THAT would be false. A follower of Cyric that thinks that Cyric is a fool and is secretly a reasonably good man, but wants the power that comes from being in Cyric's cult, or fears retribution if he leaves so he still worships Cyric despite not following Cyric's doctrine, that person is in danger of being found False.

What about a Good aligned follower of Bane who seeks to reform the church into a kinder entity?

Tortured for eternity for being False to his God.

I guess Ao is outside of morality concerns (valuing neither Good over Evil or vice versa) and Kelemvor is LN and just there to follow the rules, but still.

 

[Leatherhead]

Who said its torturous? I don't recall that being mentioned anywhere.

It's one of the more famous depictions:

 

[Flamestrike]

It's one of the more famous depictions:

One artists depiction.

And for all we know Ao has something else in store for those souls.

 

[Orius]

I always wonder why folks have an issue with the Cataclysm. This is pretty much straight up Bible stories being brought into D&D, same as Goldmoon and the Disks of Mishakal. This is the Flood story told from a fantasy POV. Mankind gets too big for its britches, the higher power slaps them down, killing lots and lots of them in the process, things start over.

This is hardly a new story.

Exactly. It's Mormon theology butting heads with D&D alignment. Throw in a rapture and Pride as a deadly sin, and you've got the background of Dragonlance. That's why it feels clunky.

 

[Leatherhead]

One artists depiction.

And for all we know Ao has something else in store for those souls.

Did you somehow think that something intended to be a punishment was going to be a pleasant experience?

 

[Flamestrike]

Did you somehow think that something intended to be a punishment was going to be a pleasant experience?

It's not intended to be punishment.

That would be getting sent to the Barrens of Doom and Despair or the Supreme Throne or worse places for eternity for being 'faithful' to Bane or Cyric. I cant image being faithful to Bhaal, Malar, Myrkul, Talos, Set, Shar or similar nets you a great eternity either.

The atheists get non-existence as a final reward. That's gotta be preferable to an eternity in Hell.

Heck, I'd probably take non-existence over an eternity of a lot of the Neutral or even Good afterlives.

 

[Iry]

You have to put all those faithless people somewhere, and a wall is a pretty efficient and functional shape. You don't want them wandering around aimlessly like those Asphodel folks. Sure, you could just annihilate them utterly, but what if you need an army of souls later? Waste not, want not.

 

[Savage Wombat]

Eat the gods! Seize control of the means of worship and redistribute the prayers to the people!