Dragonmarks!?

[Dave Turner]

It's not. What gives them the edge is the use of dragonshard focus items, which require users to possess dragonmarks. The network of speaking stones is the key to long-distance communication in Khorvaire, and speaking stones can only be operated by those who possess the Mark of Scribing; the ability to use whispering wind a few times a day is simply a handy trick. The Mark of Passage is required to control the Lightning Rail, though at high enough levels dimension hop (or at very high levels, teleport) can certainly be useful. The Mark of Storm is needed to control airships.

So it's what they can control that is the key. PC-classed spellcasters are rare. Most common magic items require the possession of a dragonmark and enhance the power of that dragonmark. So that's what gives the houses their edge: Lyrandar controls air transportation because no one else can reliably control airships.

I can appreciate this explanation, Keith, but it's fairly useless in a standard D&D game. It's a bit of setting fluff that doesn't mean much when you're on dungeon level 3 and gearing up for the big fight with evil wizard and his living spell henchmen.

Good feats add abilities that are constant or easily reusable (Spell Penetration or Power Attack). Most characters don't receive that many feats and trading a precious feat for one low-level spell once or twice a day isn't a good trade. When stacked up against Dodge, the ability to cast whispering wind twice a day doesn't seem that appealing.

Of course, this all depends on the composition of the game. A D&D game with a heavy focus on intrigue rather than combat will make choosing whispering wind over Dodge an easier choice. But if you're playing D&D (and Eberron, for that matter) because you want a game heavy on intrigue or social stories, you're barking up the wrong tree. There are plenty of game systems that are better suited for that, like Heroquest or Dying Earth.

D&D is primarily designed as a combat-based game and, in light of that fundamental design component, the dragonmarked feats aren't attractive for the most part.

 

[Brandigan]

One thing that doesn't sit right with me about dragonmarks is how they originate. They randomnly appear on someone someday and that person is like 'ah, looks like a house so-and-so. I better report for duty!' And this individual is instantly accepted into this organization. That's the impression I got, please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Reynard]

I can appreciate this explanation, Keith, but it's fairly useless in a standard D&D game. It's a bit of setting fluff that doesn't mean much when you're on dungeon level 3 and gearing up for the big fight with evil wizard and his living spell henchmen.

Good feats add abilities that are constant or easily reusable (Spell Penetration or Power Attack). Most characters don't receive that many feats and trading a precious feat for one low-level spell once or twice a day isn't a good trade. When stacked up against Dodge, the ability to cast whispering wind twice a day doesn't seem that appealing.

Of course, this all depends on the composition of the game. A D&D game with a heavy focus on intrigue rather than combat will make choosing whispering wind over Dodge an easier choice. But if you're playing D&D (and Eberron, for that matter) because you want a game heavy on intrigue or social stories, you're barking up the wrong tree. There are plenty of game systems that are better suited for that, like Heroquest or Dying Earth.

D&D is primarily designed as a combat-based game and, in light of that fundamental design component, the dragonmarked feats aren't attractive for the most part.

I think you are making a lot of assumptions about D&D and play styles in general. Beating up on "fluff" because it doesn't let you waste all the enemies in the room is certainly a reasonably thing to do under a certain philosophy of play, but that doesn't make it true. So yeah, if you are playing a hack and slash dungeon bash game, maybe you want Power Attack instead.

Also, saying that the Dragonmarks are "bad" because you can't port them out of Eberron and have them be as effective as they are in that setting is a straw man complaint, imo. The feats were designed for Eberron, as mechanical expression of a setting element. Since the feat doesn't just give you a power, it also gives you a certain social status, if you remove that part of the feat, you have basically cut the effectiveness of the feat in half. Of course, then, it is not a "good" as the feat in Eberron.

Not all setting specific mechanics, regardless of the setting in question, should be equally useful/powerful when removed from their setting. One of the strengths of 3.x, as shown by a vast quantity of settings by various publishers, is that it is mutable per the setting. I mean, would you the Harper PrCs to a setting with no Harper organization?

 

[Hand of Evil]

They are not really needed but they are also plot elements, allowing the DM to build stories, backgrounds, conflicts into the adventure.

 

[Virate]

One thing that doesn't sit right with me about dragonmarks is how they originate. They randomnly appear on someone someday and that person is like 'ah, looks like a house so-and-so. I better report for duty!' And this individual is instantly accepted into this organization. That's the impression I got, please correct me if I'm wrong.

Dragonmarks are passed on through bloodlines. So those who are not genetically related to a Great House will never develop that dragonmark. This isn't exactly random placement, especially when you consider that dragonmarked individuals are exactly free to 'have relations' with just anyone.

If you do possess a dragonmark it indicates you are a direct descendant of a Great House. I like think of it in almost a Godfather esque mentality. Vinny over there has a dragonmark, and so he is a legitimate heir of the family.

 

[Brandigan]

Aha, thanks Virate. Maybe I was thinking about how dragonmarks first manifested as opposed to how they were passed on from there. I think they would make interesting NPCs, not sure if I want PCs to have them yet.

 

[Vaxalon]

... fairly useless in a standard D&D game.

Big news, Dave... Eberron isn't a standard DND game.

 

[Hellcow]

I can appreciate this explanation, Keith, but it's fairly useless in a standard D&D game. It's a bit of setting fluff that doesn't mean much when you're on dungeon level 3 and gearing up for the big fight with evil wizard and his living spell henchmen.

It really depends on the style of play and the mark chosen. Yes, it's hard to imagine whispering wind being useful. But it's hard for me to imagine a PC taking that mark. It's there because of the Mark of Scribing's value to the world at large, not because PCs are expected to take it -- feats are out there for NPCs as well.

Among players, the most valuable marks are probably the Mark of Passage (I've seen some great use of dimension leap), the Mark of Healing, the Mark of Sentinel, and the Mark of Shadow. Many of these are most useful if you have a specific concept you want to use: I want to be a teleporting archer, but I don't want to spend half my levels on wizard levels. One feat at first level and you can at least dimension leap, which while limited, lets you get started with teleportation right away. And, of course, the feats do become more useful as you build upon them. By the time I pick up the Lesser Mark of Passage at 6th level -- already 1 level before a wizard can use dimension door, I'm also able to use dimension leap for a total of 120 feet per day. Being able to leap 40 feet across a mass of enemies or up to a good sniping point can be very useful for the sniper.

And on the complete opposite end, in my game, I have a halfling rogue with the Mark of Hospitality and the ability to use prestidigitation. Yes, she could have just taking a spellcasting level, but this way she has contacts in half the inns the party goes to, she hasn't lost a rogue level, and she loves all the things she can pull off with the mark -- even though they have no combat application whatsoever. So personal play style is key here.

But yes, i'm not going to argue that you should take whispering wind.

 

[Dave Turner]

Keith,

I agree that the Marks you listed are probably the most valuable. I suspect this is because of their obvious use in combat, which is the central focus of any D&D game. The vast majority of the rules in the PHB are devoted to combat in one way or another, which is why I believe that combat is what any D&D game is designed around.

Personal play style is important and, ultimately, fruitless to argue for or against. It's a subjective medium. My concern is a design one. If you intended (or envisioned) that whispering wind to be for NPCs only, then why not relegate the ability to an NPC class similar to the magewright? I agree that feats are for NPCs as well, but do we need a feat for something as inconsequential as whispering wind, or make whole or unseen servant? Sure, dragonmarks are a feat chain and they grow in power as you follow the chain. But compared to other starter feats in the feat chains in the PHB (Power Attack and Combat Expertise leap to mind), they are woeful.

I bought Eberron and I like it. My group is gearing up for a campaign in the very near future. I think you did a great job. But some of the design decisions sure make me scratch my head. Your admission that whispering wind is not an optimal PC choice shows commendable honesty and decency. Hats off to you for that.

 

[Sejs]

Heh, amusingly enough, whispering wind has proven to be quite useful in some of the games I've played in. Scouts just love it to bits because it lets you report back pertinent information without actually having to stop your scouting.