Dragonmarks!?

[ruleslawyer]

Why shouldn't all feats be equal or as equal as they can be made? It would be poor game design if they were otherwise. If we are going to allow that all feats need not be equal, then how would we criticize a feat that gives a character three wishes per day? If players aren't generally taking Toughness or Quick Draw, then those feats are badly designed. They are apparently inferior to other choices available. There's no need to remove them, but they are wasted space if they are never used.

Flavor feats =/ badly designed feats. NPCs can and will take these feats all the time, just as a craftsman will take Skill Focus in the relevant Craft skill to be better at his job. The game world shouldn't be all about dodging arrows and cleaving goblins, y'know.

PCs may take dragonmarks, or they may not. They don't have to, but maybe a player will want to in order to get a nifty extra ability (as Keith pointed out, some of them are actually quite useful) or to cement his viability to succeed at a dragonmarked house.

 

[Menchi]

Flavor feats =/ badly designed feats. NPCs can and will take these feats all the time, just as a craftsman will take Skill Focus in the relevant Craft skill to be better at his job. The game world shouldn't be all about dodging arrows and cleaving goblins, y'know.

PCs may take dragonmarks, or they may not. They don't have to, but maybe a player will want to in order to get a nifty extra ability (as Keith pointed out, some of them are actually quite useful) or to cement his viability to succeed at a dragonmarked house.

I see it as Dave looking at Character generation from a purely metagame perspective. He's thinking about mechanics. But the point is that some people take weaker characters because they are thinking about gaming possiblities outside of combat.

D&D is no more combat oriented than any other game. Sure, it has fairly detailed combat rules - but that doesn't mean that it is meant to be just combat focused - and in recent years there has been a clear movement away from this way of thinking.

The Pulp genre tends to be less about combat and more about action - sure there are fights, but there are also daring escapes and lucky breaks. Having a feat that gives you a spell without losing any class levels can oft-times give certain classes an edge over their equals.

Remember that with the number of base classes, feats, races, spells, skills and items in the collected D&D catalogue there are literally millions of different combinations. Some of those combinations will benefit from the use of dragonmarks - regardless of how low the spell may seem.

That's even before presitge classes come into play as well...

I think that Eberron is inspired by providing feats that are more focused on character background rather than just a combat edge. In a game where there is more intrigue and less combat, you're likely to find the Dragonmarked PC is going to have the edge over the guy who bought up big on all the "good" combat feats....

Conan

 

[TDRandall]

Flavor-feel of dragonmarks

Looks like this is as good a place as any to ask this (but I certainly don't mean to hijack the thread!)...

What do you think would be the average-joe-commoner's reaction to somebody with a dragonmark?

I presume they can recognize a dragonmark over any other large birthmark, but would the commoner be able to identify the varous levels or types with any accuracy? Suppose a stranger walks into town - will the barmaid be able to identify it as a greater mark of healing and thereby hope for her poor ol' paw who's been waning with some mysterious malady?

Or might a fancy tatoo - that the wearer knows does not match any known dragonmark - be hailed by commoners as a dragonmarked character and thereby gain some instant, illegitimate fame?

 

[Menchi]

Looks like this is as good a place as any to ask this (but I certainly don't mean to hijack the thread!)...

What do you think would be the average-joe-commoner's reaction to somebody with a dragonmark?

I presume they can recognize a dragonmark over any other large birthmark, but would the commoner be able to identify the varous levels or types with any accuracy? Suppose a stranger walks into town - will the barmaid be able to identify it as a greater mark of healing and thereby hope for her poor ol' paw who's been waning with some mysterious malady?

Or might a fancy tatoo - that the wearer knows does not match any known dragonmark - be hailed by commoners as a dragonmarked character and thereby gain some instant, illegitimate fame?

The impression I got from the pictures of the marks in the book is that they are pretty recognisable. Firstly they aren't just a single colour - rather it appears they they have an irridescent quality. Kind of shimmering and multicoloured. They also have a central symbol that the mark grows out from.

So, even a commoner would know a dragonmark if they saw one. They might not know which house the mark is from - they are pretty complex marks - but they would know a real mark from a fake.

Conan

 

[Squire James]

I'd say anyone but a fool could tell a Dragonmark from a mere tatoo (DC 5 Int check, automatic if the person actually saw a Dragonmark in the past). Recognizing the particular House is tougher, perhaps a DC 10 Knowledge (nobility) for Least marks (the most common), DC 15 for Lesser, and DC 20 for Greater.

The real potential for fraud lie in the Aberrant Dragonmarks: real Dragonmarks that are unconnected to any House. I'd call it a DC 20 Knowledge (nobility) to know that it doesn't match any House mark, and there's not many peasants or even village leaders with that kind of skill. Such a person could certainly bilk peasants, and might have a good chance to Bluff a discount for Lightning Rail by pretending to be d'Orien!

 

[Hellcow]

I presume they can recognize a dragonmark over any other large birthmark, but would the commoner be able to identify the varous levels or types with any accuracy? Suppose a stranger walks into town - will the barmaid be able to identify it as a greater mark of healing and thereby hope for her poor ol' paw who's been waning with some mysterious malady?

Or might a fancy tatoo - that the wearer knows does not match any known dragonmark - be hailed by commoners as a dragonmarked character and thereby gain some instant, illegitimate fame?

Dragonmarks are shimmering and vivid. A mundane tattoo isn't going to be convincing. Rules for recognizing a dragonmark are provided on page 47 of the CSB. Knowledge (nobility) will allow you to recognize the heraldry, common physical traits, and typical clothing/trappings of the house, so it will let you say "I think she's Cannith" -- provided she's not trying to hide this fact. It should also be used when you're trying to remember customs of the houses, leader's names, that sort of thing. DC should be determined normally -- I'd make it a 5 to recognize heraldry (pretty darn well known, and probably could also be done with a DC 10 Int check), going up to 15 for house clothing, 20+ for customs and facts.

What do you think would be the average-joe-commoner's reaction to somebody with a dragonmark?

This depends on how the character presents himself. If he's wearing a house signet ring, dressed in glamerweave, and looks confident, he'll be treated like a wealthy merchant -- which is what they'll assume that he is. If he's dressed in a traveler's outfit, they'll assume that he's a low-ranking member of the house. Sure, be a little respectful because he's got family, but you don't need to bow and scrape to everyone with a least dragonmark -- a lot of them are working stiffs too. The average least-marked Ghallanda is an innkeeper. You want to respect her connections, but it's not as if she's a duchess.

 

[Henry]

Sure, be a little respectful because he's got family, but you don't need to bow and scrape to everyone with a least dragonmark -- a lot of them are working stiffs too. The average least-marked Ghallanda is an innkeeper. You want to respect her connections, but it's not as if she's a duchess.

To respond to the previous poster's question, I would suppose that someone from House Jorasco would be recognizeable moreso than the other houses too, because they perform such an important function as healing. In the example posted, would you surmise that seeing someone with a Greater Jorasco mark would be more recognizeable, and appealed to for aid?

 

[Hellcow]

To respond to the previous poster's question, I would suppose that someone from House Jorasco would be recognizeable moreso than the other houses too, because they perform such an important function as healing.

Well, if he is serving in an official capacity, a member of the house will wear insignia or a distinctive uniform (like a Red Cross worker in the field). So Jorasco is certainly well known -- especially being one of two halfling houses -- but people are used to seeing Sivis stone-operators, Kundarak bankers, Orien couriers, and so on. But sure, Jorasco would be one of the best known.

In the example posted, would you surmise that seeing someone with a Greater Jorasco mark would be more recognizeable, and appealed to for aid?

Well, it may very well be that the dragonmark itself isn't visible, so it's size isn't known; it's the insignia or dress that stands out. Once the presence of the mark was known, yes, the character might be asked for aid. But Jorasco is a business, and you don't get to be a successful business by handing out freebies. So you won't be mobbed on the street because the prices of house services are well-known. However, you can certainly have the occasional "Please, Master Jorasco, we don't have nuthin to offer, but my pa will die if you don't help him... can't you do something?" If anything, a character who is to profligate with his gifts could be criticized by the house for giving the impression that the services are free and causing other healers to be harassed -- but it can also be a good basis for adventure, as the sick father gives the healer a scrap of an old map in lieu of gold, out of gratitude for being healed.