Dragonrider, Mounted Archer

[Lanfear]

i looked through the crossbow issue, but the severe drawbacks pushed me to a composite shortbow. The creatures posted by you are... weird after all, i need a medium sized flying creature, halfdragon would be a possibility, but anything other is hard to imagine. i´m not sure if a hippygryph is a willing mount when it comes to that a dragon will sit on it, and after all, i´m a little dragon, i smell like a dragon, i look like a dragon (well, not really, but a bit^^), and i have sharp teeth and claws. and... a hippogryph will taste fine if the flesh is treated right

 

[irdeggman]

What level is your DM starting you at?

When I started my AoW game I started everyone at an xp number between 2 & 3 (that way anyone who took item creation feats (OK scribe scroll) could use that extra xp to craft some. I also determined that starting at 1st level was too challenging for the campaign as written. This starting level also allowed people to start with a +1 LA PC, if they wanted to use a higher LA one I was going to use the Savage Progressions method from the WotC site. I had 2 (of my group of of 5 start with LA races).

But if you are starting at ECL greater than 3 the first adventure is mostly bypassed IMO since it was designed for a party of 4 PCs starting at level 1 and progressing to level 3 by the end (well actually almost 4 when you ad up the xp awards).

One of my players ran an Aasimar cleric and then used the UA system to "buy back" his LA to alleviate the lost CL issues with LA.

I agree that the loss of HD and CL for LA is real harsh for such a tough game, but as long as you are willing to suffer through it.

Keep in mind that this is a real, real tough (and deadly) adventure path.

Remember that since you are size S character the weapons you use will do less damage and that there is a penalty for using inappropriately sized weapons (like that magic medium sized short bow you may find) regardless of having the appropriate proficiency in the weapon or not. IMC "found" weapons are appropriately sized based on creatures found - that is "most" are medium sized - so finding small sized ones are less common. In the first attempt I had at running the game I had a player run a halfling who used a spiked chain. I "warned" him that the odds of him finding a small sized magical one were extremely small. LIkewise I prsently have a player running a goliath with a Large goliath warhammer - and I likewise warned him about finding one of those. The weapon is an exotic weapon (and not too common) and then a large sized one is even harder to "find" - although later in the adventure there are times where they may be "bought" or "crafted", but not in the early game.

How much of the concepts of the adventure path has your DM told you about (I'm trying to avoid "spoilers").

Does the mount in this combination work like the paladin's Poke-Mount? This is a real important question to run by your DM.

 

[Lanfear]

hi

my master told me nearly nothing about the campaign. i know that there will be many undead enemies, and we will start in diamond lake, a village like town, and come later to 2 bigger towns, one of them called free city.

i will start with lvl1 Ranger (type dragon, natural attacks), and progress with 2 substitution levels at lvl2 and 3 or 4 (i will have to look how i need the HP from another class level).

+0lvl - Type: Dragon, Natural Attacks
+1lvl - AC +2, Lowlight Vision, Immun to Cold, +2 Str, +2 Int, +2 Cha
+2lvl - AC +2 (resulting in +4), Immun to Sleep/Paralysis, Darkvision, Breath Weapon, +2 Str, +2 Con

I already thought about the possibility presented in the UA, but i didnt read it till now, i just know that its there.

the weapon problem is maybe present, but i´m sure we will find a way to deal with it. after all we play as friends, and we have a mage in our setup, who will surely get some creation feats. we grant additional feats at every 5 levels (additional 4 feats), as we are not the heavy power players and we wanted to grant simply a broader feat range for our characters. I can build my own masterwork bow with my strength, so i will cover the lack of a magical bow for the first time.

Does the mount in this combination work like the paladin's Poke-Mount? This is a real important question to run by your DM

I dont know what you talk about a "Paladin Poke-Mount" (i´m german ^^).
the levels of paladin stack with outrider. the levels of ranger stack with outrider. the feat "devoted tracker" allows me to give the boni of animal companion from the ranger levels to my paladin mount.
so my mount gets +HD from Paladin, and +HD from ranger, and both advance with the outrider, what will be pretty cool (well, maybe ^^)

that would give me a hell of a pet, but i plan just to sit on my dragon, ride on it while the rest of my group walks though the dungeons
as the medium mount needs the same space as a medium character, that should not be a problem. after i have my dragon, we will just do that. i shoot some arrows in the room, and every few rounds we will both do our breath
my dragon can only the cold breath (will not do damage to every undead), but with my adaptive breath, i will get my breath to do fire damage, which will compensate for that). The +HD from paladin, ranger and outrider will make my dragon a good and tough mount.

 

[Lanfear]

if you talk about summoning and dismissing the Paladins Mount (as described in the PHB), no, we dont play it like that. A Paladins Mount is in some ways better than a normal Mount (special mount advancement), but it will not plop in and out as the paladin wish. its a living (and dieing) creature, that is treated as every other creature in the game world.

 

[irdeggman]

if you talk about summoning and dismissing the Paladins Mount (as described in the PHB), no, we dont play it like that. A Paladins Mount is in some ways better than a normal Mount (special mount advancement), but it will not plop in and out as the paladin wish. its a living (and dieing) creature, that is treated as every other creature in the game world.

Make sure to check with the DM on this one - there are many places (in any game) where a mount cannot go. That was one of the reasons for 3.0 using the summoning of the mount from the celestial plane - to account for this so that the mount doesn't have to simply wait around while the paladin goes about dungeon crawling.

 

[irdeggman]

i will start with lvl1 Ranger (type dragon, natural attacks), and progress with 2 substitution levels at lvl2 and 3 or 4 (i will have to look how i need the HP from another class level).

+0lvl - Type: Dragon, Natural Attacks
+1lvl - AC +2, Lowlight Vision, Immun to Cold, +2 Str, +2 Int, +2 Cha
+2lvl - AC +2 (resulting in +4), Immun to Sleep/Paralysis, Darkvision, Breath Weapon, +2 Str, +2 Con

Then you are not starting with ECL 1 characters. The template you are taking adds +3 LA to your character I believe.

Using the Savage Progressions template class levels (which I believe you have copied) do not give any HD - so you must start with a class level in paladin then you can start the template class progression (but none of the 3 levels give hit dice)

that would give me a hell of a pet, but i plan just to sit on my dragon, ride on it while the rest of my group walks though the dungeons
as the medium mount needs the same space as a medium character, that should not be a problem. after i have my dragon, we will just do that. i shoot some arrows in the room, and every few rounds we will both do our breath
my dragon can only the cold breath (will not do damage to every undead), but with my adaptive breath, i will get my breath to do fire damage, which will compensate for that). The +HD from paladin, ranger and outrider will make my dragon a good and tough mount.

Not quite.

Just because a creature is medium sized does not mean it can go anywhere a medium size biped can. The mount can't climb.

The mount is indeed tough, but still limited as to where it can go.

 

[Lanfear]

well, tbh, i think a dragon is best suited to climb he can get hold with its claws as long as there are small carvings and such. did you ever see a cat climb up a tree or like that? I agree, that he cannot climb good, as he has no ranks in the skill climb, but my mount gets bonus skillpoints from the bonus HD, which i can spend

i will have to talk to my master, we will see. i´m sure you are right, my mount cannot follow everywhere. but as long as we walk, it will be there, and for other ways i have to look for a roleplaying way to get my pet where i need it.


we start with lvl1 characters.
as you can see above, my template adds the "type: dragon" and "natural attacks" without adding a lvl. and the other to rows i get for one level each. so with lvl2 i will be ranger1/halfdragon1 and with lvl 3 i will be ranger1/halfdragon2. then the template is complete, and i have +2 LA.

 

[irdeggman]

we start with lvl1 characters.
as you can see above, my template adds the "type: dragon" and "natural attacks" without adding a lvl. and the other to rows i get for one level each. so with lvl2 i will be ranger1/halfdragon1 and with lvl 3 i will be ranger1/halfdragon2. then the template is complete, and i have +2 LA.

Where did you get that template from?

Because the one from the MM and the Savage Progressions article on the WotC site does not do that.

Half-dragon is a +3 LA template.

I assume the +2 AC is natural armor (this is important to keep track of because of how touch attacks work and armor bonuses are applied (i.e., like armor bonuses do not stack).

When you talk about "substitution" levels I assume you are talking about racial substitution levels (I think there is a halfling ranger one out there) - because the ones for the template are not "substitution" levels but rather levels taken for character advancement not levels taken "instead" of specific levels in a class. Template levels do not eliminate class levels - that is the substitution level mechanic replaces class levels with alternate ones.

For example a Kalshtar soulknife (from Races of Eberron) has racial substitution levels at 1, 3 and 5 (I think those are the levels).

When you take a substitution level you can not take the "normal" equivalent level in that class. But you can take which ever ones you like, unless they are built on each other for prequisites. The substitution level benefits (and adjustments) replace those of the base calss at those levels. Usually these include swapping out a class skill at the levels taken at the substitution level. Sometimes they include changing hit die size at the substitution levels. Always they involve swapping out a normal class ability for a different one that is "themed" to the race in question.

 

[irdeggman]

Oh an important thing to keep in mind is that if your type changes then spells and effects that are type specific do not work if your type does not match.

For example if your type changes to "dragon" from "humanoid" spells like Enlarge Person will no longer work since they only affect "humanoids". Cure Light Wounds will still work since it targets "creature touched".

This is something that a lot of people miss.

 

[irdeggman]

the leadership states, that a char can attract a cohort. leadership score is lvl+cha. with charisma 20 i would have a leadership score of 25, which allows me to attract cohort with max lvl17. a yound silver has 13HD, LA +5. thats ECL of 18. if i want to take it as a mount, i have to add minimun +2ECL for the paladin mount qualities. so it would be ECL20, three level higher than i can attract.

stupid books.

You also must be 6th level before you qualify for the Leaderrship feat in the first place.

LA does not count, only HD. So it is a moot point anyway.

LEADERSHIP [GENERAL]
Prerequisite: Character level 6th.