Dragon's Revisited [Come on in folks]
- Thread starter Liquide
- Start date
Liquide -yeah I know the lady was centre. This is an illustration of her but for purposes of the forum, I was only talking about the dragon.
I don't think all dragons need spikes but you're right about the details. As I said, it was just a sketch, not a finished piece and I was studying the form more than the detail.
And Malessa - that diagram above makes me think of a wyvern more than a dragon. I always defined the difference in that Dragons were quad-legged (quadroped?) with wings and Wyverns had two legs and their arms were wings. That's just me though.
I don't think all dragons need spikes but you're right about the details. As I said, it was just a sketch, not a finished piece and I was studying the form more than the detail.
And Malessa - that diagram above makes me think of a wyvern more than a dragon. I always defined the difference in that Dragons were quad-legged (quadroped?) with wings and Wyverns had two legs and their arms were wings. That's just me though.
Wolv0rine
First Post
Argh! That's what I get for posting so late at night. I had meant to mention the 2-thumbs, 7-fingers things (I've become a stickler on wings in general in most cases, after a huge chunk of research I did myself, just like Malessa's doing). That was a good reference pic, I suggest you find a couple of just the wing, extended a bit, and other types of wings to compare them to, as well. It's very enlightening. 
Wolv0rine
First Post
Liquide said:
- Actually your eyes doesn't folly you here mate
- Suggestions lad, suggestions on how to this
- Me and bones == don't match up well
- Well, no comments here it is a lil bit short, but it would mean that I am to redraw a large chunka of the illo in order for it to match up, so no please.
- Had to bend the tail for it to fit, this one I can remodel since I have not torn the paper apiece at that place yet
- Nag Nag Nag
, well if you say so (I likem me wings though
)
[/list=1]
Hey I never swell (at least not too much since that would make me explode), and thanks mate
1. Aha! So you didn't fubar the horns, you just filed them down.
Okay, now that I can live with and respect. hehe
2. Okay, on this one I meant the flare-frill (not the 3-peaked one directly under the eyes, but the one that stretches from chin to behind the eye). What I meant was, look at where the little bone spurs extend from it, then look along it's length leading up to those bone spurs.. you can see where the long bone extends through the flared frill, but I thought it was just a bit too subtle. Actually I'm coming to the conclusion that what I'm seeing as just barely too subtle is really just the appearance given by this eraser technique, so maybe we can throw this one out.
3. & 4. No, it's not something you can fix without re-drawing the whole frelling thing, but it's something to watch out for next time. My guess is that most people not looking that close will never notice this bone problem, and when they finally do, they might thing they're special. ;P
5. Oh, I like that the tail curves around, it's just the bloby looking part (looking like a slight hand drift, obviously not intended, this is the same category as a bent sword blade or something, artist error not technique error)
6. Oh, I like the wings, I think you just haven't learned a strong taut leather technique yet is all. Which is better than the alternative, because it's easy enough to learn a good technique.
Naturally, mate. I mean geez, you know how it goes.. you spot some boo-boos, you know how to fix 'em, you find the stuff they did right so you don't look like a sadist... LOL
Liquide
DEX: 4
OK tonite (today) there will be another update, I'll introduce you to the dragon I have meddled togather today.
I currently have no scanner where I am (not at home) so I cannot scan the draft and show you the sketch, but I'll try and explain what I'm doing.
Next upcmoing illo is of a short-neck / feline dragon, changed some in the anatomy to make it match up well (compared to my above dragon), gave it a shorter neck and slightly diffrently shaped head then I normally draw.
So hold your horses, I'll be back sooner then you expect (but longer then some can wait ).
I currently have no scanner where I am (not at home) so I cannot scan the draft and show you the sketch, but I'll try and explain what I'm doing.
Next upcmoing illo is of a short-neck / feline dragon, changed some in the anatomy to make it match up well (compared to my above dragon), gave it a shorter neck and slightly diffrently shaped head then I normally draw.
So hold your horses, I'll be back sooner then you expect (but longer then some can wait
).
Liquide
DEX: 4
Well here he is (yup a male this time around), little diffrent from the classical dragon. Also a lot diffrent from the dragon I describe in my initial post.
Took a lot of inspiration from lions and cheetas on this one, well enough of my ramblings.
Here he we go, oh and comment on folks (waiting for you wolv0rine).
edit - it is still in draft, will try and finish him up tomorrow - end edit
Took a lot of inspiration from lions and cheetas on this one, well enough of my ramblings.
Here he we go, oh and comment on folks (waiting for you wolv0rine).
edit - it is still in draft, will try and finish him up tomorrow - end edit
Attachments
Last edited:
Wolv0rine
First Post
Okay now, you asked specifically.
-I like the finger bones in the wings, although the wing-top (thumb end) looks a little.. confused, in that I can't tell for sure what is what up there. Also, the wing forearm muscles look a touch odd, am I seeing a boo-boo, or am I not well enough versed in wing musculature?
-You've got the wing humorous meeting the shoulder here, good job. I am noticing that the wing shoulder seems to be under the foreleg, which is going to make flight difficult. I'd suggest the foreleg's shoulder be rolled forward and down just a bit, making it just under and just in front of the wing shoulder.
-Speaking of the foreleg, it's forearm looks a bit too human here to me, and the background foreleg's claw looks just a little too much like a hand in comparison to the other claws.
-Nice job with the forward-curved horn here, outstanding texture to it, but where is this thing sprouting from? You have depth in every other part of the pic, except where this horn meets the head, where it looks flat and pasted on.
-This tail rocks, mate. I'm loving it. Only suggestion I could make it to include something to more clearly indicate where the bottom of the tail is, perhaps some kind of line along the top of the under-scaling (and maybe along the bottom of the over-scaling) that says "This section endeth here". Maybe a bit of shadowing where the tail turns, to really make that sucked pop out, because it deserves it (it's a really good tail).
-The head is interesting, but looks a little too skeletal to me. Looks almost undead, and I think you shortened the neck too much, this thing's going to be slow, and mostly only go after things directly in front of it, because it can't move it's head up, down, or sideways very much. On the other hand, if this was the idea, you nailed it dead-on.
Overall, I see this as a very strange beast. It has these glorious wings, but would have trouble using them because of where they are mounted. It has these beautiful, powerful, springing legs, so it should be faster than hades, but the equally long forelegs are going to slow it down unless it does a lot of leaping (which those hind legs would also be very good at, I think). And while it's body speaks of speed and quick-striking, it is likely to only strike at what it directly in front of it, because that is where it's field of vision is. I might suggest altering to horns just a bit, too, for two reasons;
1) The horn obscures the view of much of the head, negating a lot of the work you've put into the head, becuse a viewer is almost encouraged to not look there past the horn. This short-changes you, because I have no doubt you busted your hump on the head.
2) From the look of it, I'm not thinking that this creature can get any real use out of it's horns, both because the points are well below it's casual line-of-sight (being below it's chin), and because they are somewhat short (they barely reach past it's teeth).
I'm presuming you weren't really focusing on that aspect very much (I'm guilty of focusing too much on one place to get another place right myself, far too often), so that's all understandable.
And, the leathery texture where the wing meets the ribcage is nice, not too symetrical. The problem is the flap between the shoulder and the elbow, because you need some folding of that flap there (because it's loose, unlike the other side where it's taut and stretched).
In short, it never ceases to impress me how quickly you make improvements to your style and technique. Overall, I get the impression that you wanted to experiment with a diferent vision of dragon, and were concentrating on that to the degree that you made some simple mistakres that you normally wouldn't make in the piece like this. I think in a next draft lots of things will improve, especially if you wait until you get some feedback before you start the next draft. ;P
Good work, mate! (I'm brutal, I know, but it's done with love, you should hear the crits I get! LOL)
-I like the finger bones in the wings, although the wing-top (thumb end) looks a little.. confused, in that I can't tell for sure what is what up there. Also, the wing forearm muscles look a touch odd, am I seeing a boo-boo, or am I not well enough versed in wing musculature?
-You've got the wing humorous meeting the shoulder here, good job.
I am noticing that the wing shoulder seems to be under the foreleg, which is going to make flight difficult. I'd suggest the foreleg's shoulder be rolled forward and down just a bit, making it just under and just in front of the wing shoulder.-Speaking of the foreleg, it's forearm looks a bit too human here to me, and the background foreleg's claw looks just a little too much like a hand in comparison to the other claws.
-Nice job with the forward-curved horn here, outstanding texture to it, but where is this thing sprouting from? You have depth in every other part of the pic, except where this horn meets the head, where it looks flat and pasted on.
-This tail rocks, mate. I'm loving it. Only suggestion I could make it to include something to more clearly indicate where the bottom of the tail is, perhaps some kind of line along the top of the under-scaling (and maybe along the bottom of the over-scaling) that says "This section endeth here". Maybe a bit of shadowing where the tail turns, to really make that sucked pop out, because it deserves it (it's a really good tail).
-The head is interesting, but looks a little too skeletal to me. Looks almost undead, and I think you shortened the neck too much, this thing's going to be slow, and mostly only go after things directly in front of it, because it can't move it's head up, down, or sideways very much. On the other hand, if this was the idea, you nailed it dead-on.
Overall, I see this as a very strange beast. It has these glorious wings, but would have trouble using them because of where they are mounted. It has these beautiful, powerful, springing legs, so it should be faster than hades, but the equally long forelegs are going to slow it down unless it does a lot of leaping (which those hind legs would also be very good at, I think). And while it's body speaks of speed and quick-striking, it is likely to only strike at what it directly in front of it, because that is where it's field of vision is. I might suggest altering to horns just a bit, too, for two reasons;
1) The horn obscures the view of much of the head, negating a lot of the work you've put into the head, becuse a viewer is almost encouraged to not look there past the horn. This short-changes you, because I have no doubt you busted your hump on the head.
2) From the look of it, I'm not thinking that this creature can get any real use out of it's horns, both because the points are well below it's casual line-of-sight (being below it's chin), and because they are somewhat short (they barely reach past it's teeth).
I'm presuming you weren't really focusing on that aspect very much (I'm guilty of focusing too much on one place to get another place right myself, far too often), so that's all understandable.
And, the leathery texture where the wing meets the ribcage is nice, not too symetrical. The problem is the flap between the shoulder and the elbow, because you need some folding of that flap there (because it's loose, unlike the other side where it's taut and stretched).
In short, it never ceases to impress me how quickly you make improvements to your style and technique. Overall, I get the impression that you wanted to experiment with a diferent vision of dragon, and were concentrating on that to the degree that you made some simple mistakres that you normally wouldn't make in the piece like this. I think in a next draft lots of things will improve, especially if you wait until you get some feedback before you start the next draft. ;P
Good work, mate! (I'm brutal, I know, but it's done with love, you should hear the crits I get! LOL)
Hey all. Wanted to make sure I commented on everyone and didn’t just throw something into the pot without some other contribution.
Liquide: Like your style, man. I get the sense that there’s more detail to the drawings than what we’re seeing. I’m particularly fond of the one you posted on the 28th – even if it isn’t a full figure drawing I feel like I get a better sense of the ferocity, the toughness and the sheer power a beast like that should project. If I have any problems at all, they’re with the wings- I understand completely where you’re going with them, and yet aesthetically they don’t please me. I’m not sure if it’s the sheer amount of skin or what, but something about the wings being attached along the length of the body seems awkward (not awkwardly done, but it seems that these dragons might be ungainly in the air).
Malessa: Your posts kind of got me back into drawing again, so I’m glad to see more of them! I remember the first dragon you posted and I’ve always liked it. I happen to like some of the oriental representations of dragons and this one seems like a cross between western and eastern types. I imagine it to have bristly feathers instead of scales. The second one also has hints of eastern influence – maybe it’s just the horns. Very nice start to this drawing, great sense of power in the chest and shoulder area. Like the way the back leg conveys a sense of motion, just swinging back and forth with the beat of the wings – although I find myself wondering where the other hind leg is…
WolvOrine: I do like the asian dragons myself! A more feral and softer look, yes, but I think it’s a little easier to instill them with a sense of intelligence, or at least a more warm intelligence. Western dragons always seem cold and aloof to me.
Aldymnor: What I like best about this picture is the sense of weight the dragon has. The neck is a little thinner than might be healthy for a head that size, but overall the impression is of mass and solidity.
I think it’s been close to 10 years since I last drew a dragon. Think I’ll try tonight, though! Thanks for the inspiration, folks.
Liquide: Like your style, man. I get the sense that there’s more detail to the drawings than what we’re seeing. I’m particularly fond of the one you posted on the 28th – even if it isn’t a full figure drawing I feel like I get a better sense of the ferocity, the toughness and the sheer power a beast like that should project. If I have any problems at all, they’re with the wings- I understand completely where you’re going with them, and yet aesthetically they don’t please me. I’m not sure if it’s the sheer amount of skin or what, but something about the wings being attached along the length of the body seems awkward (not awkwardly done, but it seems that these dragons might be ungainly in the air).
Malessa: Your posts kind of got me back into drawing again, so I’m glad to see more of them! I remember the first dragon you posted and I’ve always liked it. I happen to like some of the oriental representations of dragons and this one seems like a cross between western and eastern types. I imagine it to have bristly feathers instead of scales. The second one also has hints of eastern influence – maybe it’s just the horns. Very nice start to this drawing, great sense of power in the chest and shoulder area. Like the way the back leg conveys a sense of motion, just swinging back and forth with the beat of the wings – although I find myself wondering where the other hind leg is…
WolvOrine: I do like the asian dragons myself! A more feral and softer look, yes, but I think it’s a little easier to instill them with a sense of intelligence, or at least a more warm intelligence. Western dragons always seem cold and aloof to me.
Aldymnor: What I like best about this picture is the sense of weight the dragon has. The neck is a little thinner than might be healthy for a head that size, but overall the impression is of mass and solidity.
I think it’s been close to 10 years since I last drew a dragon. Think I’ll try tonight, though! Thanks for the inspiration, folks.
Well, here's my first attempt/failure. At some point I began to realize I wasn't accomplishing what I had hoped and that I wasn't going to finish it. I'll try again later.
One of the things I wanted to do was to give that fully armored sense of a dragon, covered in scales and impervious to harm. However, as I went on I realized that the wings were not going to fit into that idea - how do you armour wings and yet make them believable for use in flying?
Yes, I know, I'm an idiot.
Anyway, here he is. Damn. Now that I look I see his head was too damn small anyway...
One of the things I wanted to do was to give that fully armored sense of a dragon, covered in scales and impervious to harm. However, as I went on I realized that the wings were not going to fit into that idea - how do you armour wings and yet make them believable for use in flying?
Yes, I know, I'm an idiot.
Anyway, here he is. Damn. Now that I look I see his head was too damn small anyway...
