Dragonshield Tactics

[Nytmare]

I don't have my books with me, but can a charge trigger Dragonshield Tactics?

Is it movement, or a move action?

 

[ZetaStriker]

I think most people have been ruling that move action + attack in the same standard action allow the PC to make the attack before the Dragonshield moves away. The Rogue's move 2 and attack at-will is another example of this.

 

[LEHaskell]

I think the question really boils down to: does a shift trigger it. I interpret that it doesn't -- "move" is a defined term that is separate from "shift". "Charge" is a defined term that incorporates a "move" and an "attack", so it would trigger Dragonshield Tactics.

 

[osmanb]

I was reading another thread earlier today asking about Dragonshield Tactics, but I already can't find it. Anyways, after doing some test combats, I'm REALLY unsure of how to run this power. (I'm going to be starting the module for real on Monday.)

The power is listed as triggering when an adjacent enemy 'shifts away' or an enemy 'moves adjacent'. Questions (I know that at least some of these have been discussed already, but I'm curious what the prevailing theory is):

• If a character moves up to attack, the DS can shift away before the attack is made, leaving the character unable to attack (unless they use a ranged attack), right?
• Is there any difference if the character is charging? Seems like no, but if the character declares a charge, do you allow them to switch to a basic ranged attack once the DS has backed away? That doesn't seem right, because now they're being allowed to do something that's otherwise illegal (move + ranged attack during a single standard action).
• If a character starts out adjacent to the DS, and shifts to remain adjacent, does DsT trigger? According to the strictest reading of the power, it doesn't, but it seems like shift is really a special case of movement (for the 2nd trigger), so it does still go off. Again, in this case, the character probably just screwed themselves, as they can no longer attack the DS in melee.

 

[Irda Ranger]

If a character moves up to attack, the DS can shift away before the attack is made, leaving the character unable to attack (unless they use a ranged attack), right?

No. Re-read the difference between an Immediate Interrupt and a Immediate Reaction.

Is there any difference if the character is charging? Seems like no, but if the character declares a charge, do you allow them to switch to a basic ranged attack once the DS has backed away? That doesn't seem right, because now they're being allowed to do something that's otherwise illegal (move + ranged attack during a single standard action).

You're completely off the mark here; see answer above. The Kobold doesn't move away until the charge has been fully resolved.

If a character starts out adjacent to the DS, and shifts to remain adjacent, does DsT trigger? According to the strictest reading of the power, it doesn't, but it seems like shift is really a special case of movement (for the 2nd trigger), so it does still go off. Again, in this case, the character probably just screwed themselves, as they can no longer attack the DS in melee.

No, it does not trigger. It triggers on a "shift away." The point is that PCs cannot shift away as a means of escaping a flank.

 

[Nytmare]

I think, at least for the time being, that I'm going to rule it as a "If you use a movement action within 1 space of him, he can shift."

Charging and the rogue ability then, would still be able to hit him.

 

[Azurecrusader]

No. Re-read the difference between an Immediate Interrupt and a Immediate Reaction.

I think you're a little off on this one, the answer should be "yes".

Immediate Reactions (such as Dragonshield Tactics), take place directly after the triggering action. In this case, the Move Action of the approaching PC. I believe that part of the whole point is that the Dragonshield can shift away from an approaching PC to avoid an attack. I'm assuming of course that you can't split your movement action.

Since Charge is a complete action, taking up movement and attack, then the Dragonshield could not shift until after the whole sequence was complete, so you are correct there.

 

[fnwc]

I think you're a little off on this one, the answer should be "yes".

Immediate Reactions (such as Dragonshield Tactics), take place directly after the triggering action. In this case, the Move Action of the approaching PC. I believe that part of the whole point is that the Dragonshield can shift away from an approaching PC to avoid an attack. I'm assuming of course that you can't split your movement action.

Since Charge is a complete action, taking up movement and attack, then the Dragonshield could not shift until after the whole sequence was complete, so you are correct there.

I agree; this is how I would rule it as well.

The difference between move then attack and a charge is the first is 2 actions, and the second is 1 action, which makes the reaction to the triggers different.

 

[Jack99]

Just to chime in, I am pretty sure Azurecrusader is right on this one, not Irda Ranger

 

[N0Man]

With all this debate, I had to actually go back and look.

Dragon Shield Tactics (immediate reaction, when an adjacent enemy shifts away or an enemy moves adjacent; at-will)

An interrupt lets you act before the triggering action is resolved. If the interrupt invalidates the triggering action, the action is lost.

A reaction lets you act immediately in response to a triggering action. The triggering action is completely resolved before you take your action.

It seems clear that charging into them would not allow them to shift until the charge action is resolved, which includes a Basic Attack. This specific action includes the move and attack in one action, so the kobold may only shift once that attack is resolved.

You know, at first thought everyone was wrong that was playing them as being able to shift once someone moved beside them but before they attacked, but now I'm not so sure. It does say that the reaction occurs after the triggering action is resolved. The move action is the triggering action, and so it does sound like it would happen as soon as the move action is finished, but before a standard action could occur.

I'm inclined to believe that Irda Ranger was wrong on his first answer, but was correct on the second answer. His mistake seems to be not distinguishing between one example being 2 actions while the other is a single action, and when I review these rules, that appears to make a difference.