Dragonstar?

[Cergorach]

Then they should license it out to anyone who CAN. Let another company do all the work and foot the bills, and FFG can just wait for the monthly royalty checks.

1.) Setting up a licensing deal takes time and effort, this equals money.
2.) Obviously FFG still sees DS as a valuable property, thus they woul have to make sure that someone doesn't deepsix their property with crappy products, so someone has to oversee the products that a third party produces and has to sign off on those products. That requires time and effort, this equals money.
3.) FFG doesn't do this out of the goodness of their hart, they want to make money, so besides the manpower costs above they have to earn money on the deal, and i'm guessing that they're not looking for a couple of bucks.
4.) The third party licensing the DS property has to pay the above costs and still make a profit, this is extremely hard without a very hot property such as Star Wars, Babylon 5, or anything else with a big name.
5.) The third party has to wait for someone reviewing their material before publication (and possibly rewriting it), this is a major hassle, and the most obvious reason why companies hate licinsing properties.

So... I don't see someone licensing the DS property. On the otherhand, if someone bought the property outright, it might be more worthwile, only one deal and all the money exchanges hands only once. The problem is, what's a setting like DS worth? And who would be willing to pay that amount (and would FFG be willing to let it go for that amount?). I personally don't think it's worth that much, as FFG devalued the products by cutting their book price by more then 60% (books that sold for $106 => $40), how's a company to do better then that deal and not have fans falling over themselves to yell "leech!" (the price o rpg books is a hotly discussed subject just about everywhere).

 

[Neo]

I have to ask -- how many of those thousand subscribers are still actively participating in it? I know I'm a member of quite a few Yahoo groups for various games and Living campaigns that I only read occasionally, at best.

And, even if all 1000 of those subscribers (and more) would buy every DS book that FFG wished to publish, it seems like the issue is whether those sales would make enough money for FFG to make it worthwhile.

How many members of any forum always post? You always get a percentage that lurk.. but those aside there are still a healthy number posting about thier campaigns, conversions, house rules and the like every day.. and I approve new subscribers almost every day so interest still seems to be growing not waning, proving still that word of mouth works for supporting the setting even if the lack of future releases doesn't.

When I look at the number of members on the many RPg related yahoos and so forth I am on and thier activity I know that in comparison..dead or not the DSD20 list is doing well.

And im sorry but if 1000 sales of any book or books does not matter to any one of the RPG publishers out there i'd be worried... from what I have heard from various RPG companies over the years a 1000 sales of any single release would be considered a good thing...this is not an industry that will make anyone rich, and unlike FOX's TV scheduling lives or dies on the support of its fans and supporters. There isnt a particularly large demographic of non roleplayers who pick up an RPG book on an "impulse" buy.

 

[kenobi65]

When I look at the number of members on the many RPg related yahoos and so forth I am on and thier activity I know that in comparison..dead or not the DSD20 list is doing well.

Fair enough.

And im sorry but if 1000 sales of any book or books does not matter to any one of the RPG publishers out there i'd be worried... from what I have heard from various RPG companies over the years a 1000 sales of any single release would be considered a good thing...

Hmmm. I'd be interested to hear from someone who actually works at a hard-copy RPG publisher. From what I've read here, sales of 1000 units would be an extraordinarily strong PDF sale, but pretty weak for a an actual book (esp. a hardcover book). The fixed costs for printing can be pretty high, and you need a significant print run to amortize the fixed costs across.

 

[KaosDevice]

Well, again I ask wha it would hurt FFG to put the DS material under some sort of version of a shared use license for independant development? It seems win/win to me. FFG gets to keep the line alive in some sort of format, open to review for possible restart...fans get new material, heck even to create new material. I don't see who looses.

Also, are all the old LDS adventures available anywhere or do they still all have to be bought through the RPGA? I wouldn't mind having those.

 

[kenobi65]

Well, again I ask wha it would hurt FFG to put the DS material under some sort of version of a shared use license for independant development? It seems win/win to me. FFG gets to keep the line alive in some sort of format, open to review for possible restart...fans get new material, heck even to create new material. I don't see who looses.

It seems that FFG has a very possessive view of their intellectual property. For a real answer, you'd have to ask them, I'm afraid.

Also, are all the old LDS adventures available anywhere or do they still all have to be bought through the RPGA? I wouldn't mind having those.

I think about half of the LDS adventures are still up on the RPGA database (the older ones are already retired). You don't have to buy them, but you can't just say, "I'd like the LDS adventures, because they'd be cool to read." The only legitimate way to get your hands on pretty much any RPGA adventure is to order it from the RPGA, with the intention of running it as an RPGA event. If you read the cover page of an RPGA module, it specifically says, "distributed solely for use in official RPGA tournament play."

That said...RPGA membership is free, and the adventures themselves are free.

 

[Neo]

Well, again I ask wha it would hurt FFG to put the DS material under some sort of version of a shared use license for independant development? It seems win/win to me. FFG gets to keep the line alive in some sort of format, open to review for possible restart...fans get new material, heck even to create new material. I don't see who looses.

Also, are all the old LDS adventures available anywhere or do they still all have to be bought through the RPGA? I wouldn't mind having those.

Well I know many of the FFG guys were really really fond of Dragonstar, I guess they maybe want to keep it nice and safe until the next big Rise in the RPG market...as apparently people keep telling me its in an ebb (hasnt affected the number of sales Ive made...In fact id say I probably buy more now than when 3.0 first got released, hehe, RP is an addicition but one I want to keep ).

I think RPG licenses are a lot like Babies... sure anyone can make one and loan it out to other people..but only certain people are suited to looking after it properly. I guess a lot of folks just like to make sure if they do grant a license that it will be given the due care and attention they would provide themselves.

 

[Cergorach]

Let's say that you could guarentee a 1000 sales (you can't, but let's say what if). FFG like the 64 pages book for $15, 1000 x $15 = $15,000.
But they sell those 1000 books to a distributer, and selling to the distributer only nets you 40% of retail, $15,000 x 40% = $6,000.
Let's assume that printing costs would cost 10% of retail, $15,000 x 10% = $1,500, $6,000 - $1,500 = $4,500.
That leaves $4,500 for designing, writing, editing, illustrating, layingout, warehouse/shipping costs, etc. Decent art (interior/exterior) would set you back around $1,500. Writing/editing $1,500 if you paid 2 cent/word for design/writing and 1 cent/word for editing (which i thing is very low indeed). Then you still need someone to do layout and you still have warehouse/shipping costs. That's a lot of work for very little return, and a 1000 sales aren't even guaranteed...

 

[Saeviomagy]

Was it just me, or did anyone else get sufficiently annoyed at dragonstar having bought the initial book (whatever it's name was) that they simply had no interest in going further?

From what I remember, there were a lot of incidences of "see the next book in the series for this rule that is core to the game".

 

[Storyteller01]

I wonder how FFG would feel about opening up the Drangonstar 'verse for publishing via pdf for indy types...

Last I've heard, they're pretty set against it. Several groups have asked to publish DS suppliments with FFG's approval. Didn't happen. Even DSRPGA was shot down.

There is a Yahoo group (DSD20) where us diehard DS fans post new ideas. Members of the DS team are also members. You can go there for any info.



To answer the original post, DS is officially out, per the FFG web site. Mystic Eye did one adventure set (Recruit, I believe) and pulled the plug on the second (Veteran). There is the 'hope' of creating a second edition, but who knows.

Sadly, the same has apparently happened to Perpetrated Press (they published Arsenal and Factory). Sales for the first two books were low, so the company pulled out. If you can find these books, they're great additions to the DS line.

 

[Storyteller01]

Was it just me, or did anyone else get sufficiently annoyed at dragonstar having bought the initial book (whatever it's name was) that they simply had no interest in going further?

From what I remember, there were a lot of incidences of "see the next book in the series for this rule that is core to the game".

More annoyed at seiing the essentail DS package released after paying $20-$35 per book.