Draw Steel General Thread [+]

[Staffan]

One of the things I really like about Draw Steel was something Matt discussed in the recent video about the different classes. All of the classes have magical abilities. He said they were thinking about a weapon master character, but rolled it into the Tactician because they didn't see what a "fighter" would do at high levels. If you're wondering why some of the classes are a little less generic, that's why.

And I love this because there are games that have the "BMX Bandit and Angel Summoner" problem. Games where one character attacks a lot and hits really hard, and the other one blasts a hole in reality and hurls enemies to the Dark Dimension just don't work for me.

Now that means Draw Steel classes are more complex than in some games, so that may be a drawback.

I see where Matt is coming from, but I think there's room for a "weapon master" type character that eventually develops some type of supernatural abilities from pure skill and/or enlightenment. I mean, look at Xena (who may or may not have divine lineage) or Hawkguy, for example.

I actually had another thought about this potential weapon master class, of having two stages of sub-classes. You could start at level 1 with a choice of e.g. Archer (focus on ranged attacks), Knight (defensive melee character), and Warrior (offensive melee), and then at some later level you choose where your extra oomph comes from (e.g. gadgetry, enlightenment/psionics, supernatural heritage/imbuement), with maybe alternating which kind of cool abilities you get from level to level.

 

[wizard71]

One of the things I really like about Draw Steel was something Matt discussed in the recent video about the different classes. All of the classes have magical abilities. He said they were thinking about a weapon master character, but rolled it into the Tactician because they didn't see what a "fighter" would do at high levels. If you're wondering why some of the classes are a little less generic, that's why.

And I love this because there are games that have the "BMX Bandit and Angel Summoner" problem. Games where one character attacks a lot and hits really hard, and the other one blasts a hole in reality and hurls enemies to the Dark Dimension just don't work for me.

Now that means Draw Steel classes are more complex than in some games, so that may be a drawback.

I loved The Angel Summoner & BMX Bandit skit. As Angel Summoner would say. It’s all about the results.

 

[Campbell]

I see where Matt is coming from, but I think there's room for a "weapon master" type character that eventually develops some type of supernatural abilities from pure skill and/or enlightenment. I mean, look at Xena (who may or may not have divine lineage) or Hawkguy, for example.

I actually had another thought about this potential weapon master class, of having two stages of sub-classes. You could start at level 1 with a choice of e.g. Archer (focus on ranged attacks), Knight (defensive melee character), and Warrior (offensive melee), and then at some later level you choose where your extra oomph comes from (e.g. gadgetry, enlightenment/psionics, supernatural heritage/imbuement), with maybe alternating which kind of cool abilities you get from level to level.

I think the bigger question here is "What does a Weapon Master do in negotiations, in montages, in intrigue scenes, in exploration scenes?" that is distinct from the Tactician and how are they a weapon master in a way that does not take a way conceptually from the Tactician.

I'm not saying there's no answer here by the way. Just saying there are questions that need to be answered.

 

[Staffan]

I think the bigger question here is "What does a Weapon Master do in negotiations, in montages, in intrigue scenes, in exploration scenes?" that is distinct from the Tactician and how are they a weapon master in a way that does not take a way conceptually from the Tactician.

I'm not saying there's no answer here by the way. Just saying there are questions that need to be answered.

The thing is that the Tactician is very much a support class. Pretty much all their abilities are about helping their buddies out – sometimes via direct action (e.g. hit someone and let a buddy hit them too, or swap places with an ally, make a weak attack against someone, and let the ally heal a bit), but the focus is on helping your allies. That's not what Xena does, or Li Mu Bai, or Hawkguy (though I might be able to buy Hawkguy as a Shadow).

And what they do in negotiations, montages, intrigue, and exploration scenes depend more on their skills and perks than their class.

 

[ffanxii4ever]

Assuming I am remembering the same video from Matt, part of it is also MCDM, right now, doesn't seem super interested in another "mundane" (as in completely non-supernatural) class. I'm sure somebody else has, or will, come out with another "mundane" class at some point, but I actually really respect the MCDM design philosophy of making a game that they find cool and that they want to make, rather than checking arbitrary boxes for making sure that they have.

 

[wizard71]

Assuming I am remembering the same video from Matt, part of it is also MCDM, right now, doesn't seem super interested in another "mundane" (as in completely non-supernatural) class. I'm sure somebody else has, or will, come out with another "mundane" class at some point, but I actually really respect the MCDM design philosophy of making a game that they find cool and that they want to make, rather than checking arbitrary boxes for making sure that they have.

This is exactly it. I think they didn’t want to hear about martials complaining that casters can do stuff they can’t. Furies become personification of chaos. Shadows are rogues with teleport that also support surprisingly well. Tacticians are battlemaster fighters. Everyone has cool and thematic powers. It’s awesome

 

[Staffan]

This is exactly it. I think they didn’t want to hear about martials complaining that casters can do stuff they can’t. Furies become personification of chaos. Shadows are rogues with teleport that also support surprisingly well. Tacticians are battlemaster fighters. Everyone has cool and thematic powers. It’s awesome

I love that Tacticians exist. Glod knows that 5e lacks a good warlord-type class. But it doesn't scratch the weapon master itch. To some degree you can cover the fighter niche with the Fury, but the Fury has pretty much nothing that works at range, so you can't do Robin Hood or Hawkguy with them, and there isn't much for the Shadow, Tactician, or Troubadour either.

 

[Thomas Shey]

This is exactly it. I think they didn’t want to hear about martials complaining that casters can do stuff they can’t. Furies become personification of chaos. Shadows are rogues with teleport that also support surprisingly well. Tacticians are battlemaster fighters. Everyone has cool and thematic powers. It’s awesome

Its an interesting tact for them to take. Last time I saw a game lean into that was Earthdawn.