Driders are opposite now: Discuss

[jgbrowning]

Not 3e or 3.5e. Driders had mental stats that allowed spellcasting (+4 Int, +6 Wis, +6 Cha) -- they were better... stronger... faster.

"We can rebuild him. We have the theology.", -- N

I liked the old driders. The curse may have made you more powerful, but what is power when one has no society, no family, no house, and are hated by your own kind?

Concerning the reason why it's bad: looking like a spider should be a good thing to most drow one would think, but the only reason why one does have the drider form is because of failure. The racial intense hatred of failure, coupled with the irony of a form that should be considered attractive, but isn't because it's the result of failure, seems like a type of punishment Lolth would dispense. This was an enjoyable example of racial complexity - the expected is not true.

A decent real-world analogy is that the jobs that society views as essential and prestigious are often not the highest paid, while jobs that are socially frowed upon can often pay better than jobs that are not. This shows that there is a complexity in our interactions.

Viewing "better" based on stats is a problem for a rpg, because stats aren't that important when designing societies. Redesigning the game's social fluff because of those stats is a bigger problem, IMO.

joe b.

 

[pawsplay]

Old Drow: Lolth curses the unworthy, specifically the almost-worthy, creating a constant reminder and threat to her chosen, which incidentally serve as a possible alliance-of-convenience for enemies of the Drow.

New Drow: More spider!

The last thing Drow need is More Spider. The Drow have kind of turned into a joke that way.

 

[Trickstergod]

All right, here's the deal for everyone who thinks it's a blessing:

I'm going to chop off the lower half of your body, replace it with an oversized spider-body - genitals and all - and then we're going to parade you down the street to see how everyone reacts to it.

It's a curse, plain and simple. It doesn't matter that it comes with all sorts of "kewl" abilities. Only the most deviant of individuals are going to find you attractive - and even then, it doesn't matter. You've been rendered completely unable to engage in physical pleasure with any partner short of maybe a kiss and a nice back rub. Way to go. Every little bit of normalcy has been taken from you - from being able to have sex to even little things like being able to sit down in a chair. Depending on how far you figure the transformation goes, even something as simple as eating food may have been stripped away.

Yeah, you might be shaped in the form of your goddess now - so what? As was already mentioned in this thread, Lolth's form is apparently a curse. And even then? All that "elven beauty" has been stripped away. You have all the advantages of steroid abuse amped up to 11 - super-strong, but down in your pants? Doesn't look so good now, does it? Not to mention the equivalent of female facial hair and all the other attendant deformities.

It does make sense to integrate them into drow society, sure - as shock troopers. Not as leaders or anything worthy of respect. Because it is a curse and anyone who doesn't see that should consider for a moment just how much they would like being turned into a drider.

The power isn't worth the cost. And the change? Blech. It made more sense the original way. More power =/= better, at least in this case.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I liked the old driders. The curse may have made you more powerful, but what is power when one has no society, no family, no house, and are hated by your own kind?

Normally, I might agree with this being a curse, but with the Drow and their ever-backstabbing feuds and extreme meritocracy (fail, you die, win, you get another chance to fail)? I'd rather be outcast.

 

[rounser]

I like this change. As a blessing you can use driders more. They'll have to make Lolth meaner in some other way to compensate, though.

 

[Trickstergod]

I like this change. As a blessing you can use driders more. They'll have to make Lolth meaner in some other way to compensate, though.

It really didn't need to be a blessing, though. It could (and should) still be a curse and allow driders to be used - just turn them into shock troops, the frontline for drow defense. Powerful engines of destruction that no one will really care about if they're killed.

Powerful yet still at the bottom of the hierarchy. Because you don't reward your faithful by turning them into freakish monstrosities that can no longer enjoy living a normal life.

 

[jgbrowning]

Normally, I might agree with this being a curse, but with the Drow and their ever-backstabbing feuds and extreme meritocracy (fail, you die, win, you get another chance to fail)? I'd rather be outcast.

But it also means that you'll never have the chance to backstab and feud and hear the lamentations of the losers...

joe b.

 

[el-remmen]

I think it can work equally well either way (I always associated it with a loss of will - a curse to some, a blessing to others).

 

[Merlin the Tuna]

Only the most deviant of individuals are going to find you attractive

So... Drow?

and even then, it doesn't matter. You've been rendered completely unable to engage in physical pleasure with any partner short of maybe a kiss and a nice back rub.

I'm sure that 20 minutes with Google can find us something at least this weird.

Spider people would be weird if you paraded them around the streets of Chicago, yes. If you parade them around the streets of Spiderville, where Spiderpriestesses chill with Spidergod, eh, less so. It's a bit singleminded, but fantasy tends towards singlemindedness.

So yes, to a human, driders would be creepy. To a drow, eh, not convinced.

 

[The Little Raven]

I think it can work equally well either way (I always associated it with a loss of will - a curse to some, a blessing to others).

What amuses me about the curse/blessing of it is this...

In previous editions, Corellon cursed Lloth with her half-spider form, and thus drow consider that form to be a curse (driders), but still revere spiders so devoutly that killing one (even accidentally) is a crime against the goddess. Also, in those editions, drow were cursed by Corellon with their black skin and white hair, but they consider that a blessing.

So, when an enemy god curses your goddess with the form of a creature that your culture reveres, it's a curse, but when that god curses your entire race, it's a blessing.