DriveThruRPG Exclusivity

[Tsyr]

(at least one seems to think that DRM is the only type of pdf format out there)

Who was this, out of curiosity?

 

[Morrus]

OK, folks. Since my last warning in this thread, three bans have been handed out. We'll be watching this thread and others very closely from now on.

Please see my announcement at the top of this forum.

 

[Cergorach At Work]

OK, folks. Since my last warning in this thread, three bans have been handed out. We'll be watching this thread and others very closely from now on.

Please see my announcement at the top of this forum.

Well one of these seems to be moi...
Now, if i had actually seen your post in this thread, i wouldn't have replied to danna at all or any of these threads in fact (i've had enough of all this stuff to tell the truth, but danna's arrogant behavior just begged for a response). Generally when someone posts out of line the message is edited, a warning is sent to the offender, after ignoring the warning someone might be banned, that was how it was in the past. Now, because i did not read your message before i had the time to edit my own, i'm banned for a week or maybe longer.

I'm guessing Danna is also banned. It would have been nice if the offending message was deleted, that way i wouldn't have replied to it and wouldn't have been banned as well.

I'm not particularry pissed about getting banned, but it would have been nice if the way warnings are dealt out was a bit more consistantly. Last time i got a warning (yeah i've been bad before ;-) i appologized to piratecat and left the 'discussion' to cool off.

I'm not trying to whine, but i'm left with the feeling like someone who just missed an important memo and to late realized that someone just issued a warning...

 

[Dinkeldog]

Cergorach, you know the proper way to contest Moderator decisions. You have e-mail from me.

 

[dsfriii]

Thank You...

I am happy the Mods have taken this stance. I think it is an important topic that needs to be discussed, but I think it has gotten way to heated.

 

[The Sigil]

Ultimately there are a lot of companies involved who would never have considered going digital delivery if file security measures were not involved.

*nods*

Frankly, that's what I expected. I understand why, too ("we don't want to just hand out our stuff so it will be floating around on P2P networks"). The conclusion ("DRM will keep it from floating around on P2P networks") is flawed, of course, but since I'm pretty sure most of those who signed on didn't know how easy DRM is to crack, I see where they came to that conclusion.

In time I am only certain that things will continue to change. Some publishers will want more or less or no security measures/restrictions on their e-Book titles.

Hopefully, if nothing else, after they peel off the asbestos suits they'd need to withstand the flaming directed at them over the last couple of days, they'll keep that little nugget of knowledge - that "DRM will keep it off P2P" is not correct and will adjust their stands accordingly.

Of course, I have to hope they DON'T adjust their stand to "well, no e-product at all is better than this" - because then I won't have a shot at getting access to their excellent stuff in electronic form. In the meantime, your answers hint that potential customer/vendor "negotiations" (I use that term with quotes as there's nobody in a room sitting down and hammering out negotiations - rather, it's kind of a large scale, free-market response method of negotiating comingled with some chat on internet boards) continue.

Fan response and market economy and individual publisher strategy will determine how and when those changes happen.

So negotations continue. That's what I had hoped for. I've not reached the "buy" point in the negotiations, but the fact that change is still on the table keeps me hopeful.

Thanks for a courteous response, Steve.

--The Sigil

 

[Psion]

Okay all,

Trying to hit all the threads in which this was brought up.

Regarding the "6 machine limit"

DTRPG has updated their "response to misconceptions" link confirming that there is, in fact, a 6 machine limit, contrary to what Steve Wieck had posted. There is some provision to reset machines through Adobe customer service:

Note that you can only have 6 computers activated at any one time; however, the following is from Adobe Support: "If you have reformatted your hard drive or you have a new computer, you can call Customer Service at 800-272-3623 to get your activation reset. Press 1 for sales." We have used this number to reset activations with no difficulty.

 

[Orcus]

Wow, I get busy at work and dont spend my normal time here this week and see what I miss...

I can clear up a few things, if you want me to:

1. I wasnt coerced or in any way influenced to join DRPG.
2. I dont get special terms or special contracts just cause I'm with SSS.
3. I'm not trying to put RPGNow out of business.
4. I havent had DRM shoved down my throat and forced on me.
5. Exclusivity wasnt forced on me. I could have just said no to being a part of the deal.
6. I allowed DRPG to set the price of the two books that are currently up there. I chose to allow them to do that. I didnt take input in my pricing decisions. Not to say I cant or wont, just that so far I havent. I have not given up control over the pricing of my books to DRPG, despite the suggestion of some who have said I have no control over pricing which is not true.
7. I dont consider our fans to be the enemy. Similarly, I dont in any way buy into the concept that adding security features means I am calling my customers thieves. I dont buy into that hyper-sensitive view of the world. I dont get mad when I go to the electronics store and have to pass through detectors on the way in and out. Or that my books and CDs have little electronic tag things in or on them that have to be deactivated. Or that they check my receipt at CostCo. I dont see that as them thinking "I" am a thief. I think they are trying to prevent others from thievery. To my mind, it takes a rather guilty mind to read any and all security measures as calling you a thief. Plus, I dont buy into the "it cant prevent cracking" argument. Of course it cant. Nothing can. But you cant tell me then that means that if I cant guarantee it 100% that I should then take NO steps at all.
8. I am trying to ADD a service and meet needs of people who otherwise do not have access to Necro books, such as people overseas or in countries that have onerous duties on books. It does seem somewhat strange that people are getting heat for ADDING a service and had they simply done nothing and not met a need for some fans (sure, not all), they would be getting NO flack.
9. I never was a "for sale pdf" company. I didnt have product listed for sale at RPGNow, despite some who have suggested I did.

The suggestion that DRPG has some control over these companies is just not true. I understand why people might think that, but all the same it isnt true.

There sure seems to be a whole lot of mis-information about DRPG and its intent out there. I understand that many people have issues with DRM and fully respect that. But some seem to be taking thier dislike of DRM to a whole new personal level reagarding DRPG and that is sad. I was sorry to come here and read that sort of stuff. Particularly here, a set of boards that are IMHO far more civil than other similar boards (they know who they are).

I should point out that just about every post by Dana that I have read has been little more than conjecture and innuendo and factually incorrect. For example, in this thread her/his? post about pricing and vendors being greedy is full of erroneous assumptions. I'll be happy to explain more. For us, I am a print publisher. Not to be elitist, that is just my business model. I dotn want to price pdfs to take away print sales or upset distributors (by the way, I heard someone say Monte didnt find this was happening; my response is I'm not Monte, his clout to get a book carried by distributors is far beyond what mine will ever be; my word of advice: dont judge anything in the industry as a norm by how Monte does things; he is the Gygax of 3E). New books will only have a slight discount. Old stuff will have a significant discout. That is what matches and compliments my business model. If you dont want the pdf, please by all means buy the printed product. I sure dont want to be stuck with a warehouse of printed books because I priced my print products out with too good a price on the PDFs. This is most certainly not greed. It is maintaining a successful business model.

If anyone has questions about things, I am happy to answer them to the best of my ability.

Clark

 

[Flyspeck23]

Thanks for sharing your POV.

One comment, though:

To my mind, it takes a rather guilty mind to read any and all security measures as calling you a thief.

While some of the DRM bashers out there indeed seem to have a problem with "any and all security measures", the main point about the DRM is this: it might lure publishers into a false sense of security (but that's their problem, right?), while at the same time it might (and already has) cause problems and inconvenience for the customers.

 

[Umbran]

7. I dont consider our fans to be the enemy. Similarly, I dont in any way buy into the concept that adding security features means I am calling my customers thieves. I dont buy into that hyper-sensitive view of the world.

With respect, whether you buy into it or not isn't really relevant, as in this context you are a publisher, not a consumer of goods. You aren't the one who is having rights you are accustomed to curtailed.

I'll note that every one of your examples fails to be solidly analogous, in that the gates, tags and other shoplifting measures in no way change how you may use your products when you get them home. You don't have to show a receipt every time you wear a shirt you've bought, and you aren't restricted to only getting dressed in a particular room in your house to make it easier for the store to double check that it isn't a stolen shirt, are you?

It is very simple, really. The consumers have gotten used to having certain rights with pdf products. DRM effectively curtails some of those rights. Take a person's rights away, they are going to get upset.

Now, if you could sell this as "for the common good", you might be okay. Folks could understand that. But with DRM so easy to break, that's a pretty hard sell. The only way it stops casual theft is through user ignorance.

Here's a question for you, and other pdf publishers - how many of your sales come from folks who read message boards where this is being discussed? Becasue by now, most of EN World probably knows that DRM is easy to crack. It will no longer stop them from casually stealing your work. If most of your customers are folks who have learned this fact, the DRM has been rendered pretty much useless. At that point, dropping it would be a public relations coup....