Dropping a summon bomb in a room from outside.

[Quasqueton]

The druid (or any caster) stands outside a room with an open doorway, and casts summon nature's ally (or monster). He targets the summoned creature to appear inside the room. Will the summoned creature automatically attack the orcs inside, that the druid wasn't sure were in there? Would it make a difference if the druid knew for sure there were orcs in the room?

Quasqueton

 

[notjer]

Hmmm dont know... but the orcs would probely attack your summon and then your summon would attack :O.

 

[Shallown]

I think that would work fine. If no enemies are present it then just sits there waiting orders. Having speak with animals would be useful so you could order it to attack the biggest one but otherwise it will attack the nearest creature it can identify as an enemy.

Problem comes if there are innocent people in there then the caster has no direct control over the summoned ally. One reason I took the elemental langauges so I could Commnad them to do other useful things once I could summon them (1 more level away)

Sunday nights game I summoned an eagle and sent it flying around some roof tops since I couldn't get up to serch them myself. I just hoped no innocent bystander would be seen as an enemy outside the area I could see.

The spell isn't clera on how they summoned creatures no who is the enemy and who is not. I assume they just know when they appear. Maybe by the caster's intent. I always thought it sucked you couldn't communicate with the summoned creature through the summonings so you could do more than fight with them if you wanted to be creative. There are ways around it but they spell doesn't make it easy.

 

[Nail]

This goes back to the ol' "Who is your ally/enemy" arguement, started whenever Hypersmurf and the spell Bless are in the same room.

To be safe, I'd rule that the summoned monsters would not automatically attack whatever is in the room. They have no idea who's an enemy, and who isn't without the caster knowing the same.

 

[Quasqueton]

Would it make a difference if the druid's friends were already in the room battling the orcs?

Quasqueton

 

[cordell]

Ok, I'll take a shot at this one.

The text for Effect from SRD 3.5: "Effect: Some spells create or summon things rather than affecting things that are already present. You must designate the location where these things are to appear, either by seeing it or defining it. Range determines how far away an effect can appear, but if the effect is mobile it can move regardless of the spell’s range."

The text for Range from SRD 3.5: "RANGE / A spell’s range indicates how far from you it can reach, as defined in the Range entry of the spell description. A spell’s range is the maximum distance from you that the spell’s effect can occur, as well as the maximum distance at which you can designate the spell’s point of origin."

Some of the text for Summon Monster I from 3.5 SRD: "This spell summons an extraplanar creature (typically an outsider, elemental, or magical beast native to another plane). It appears where you designate and acts immediately, on your turn. It attacks your opponents to the best of its ability. If you can communicate with the creature, you can direct it not to attack, to attack particular enemies, or to perform other actions."

Also from Summon Monster I from SRD 3.5: "Effect: One summoned creature" and "Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)"

So, my understanding is that the caster can designate any point within Close range for the creature to appear, by *defining* it (as in the spell text). For example, the definition might be "10 feet past this door". The spell automatically knows who your "opponents" are, simply because this is the only way it's playable. Just like the Bless spell automatically knows who your "allies" are. If you can speak the creature's language, and it can hear you through the door, then you can give it another command.

As a side note, the only risk I see for the player is that creatures on the other side of the door, which the *character* would not consider an "opponent", might attack the strange creature which suddenly appears in their midst, even though the creature doesn't attack them. In this case, of course the creature would attack back, again, simply because it's the only way to play it.

Hope that helps.

 

[haiiro]

The spell isn't clera on how they summoned creatures no who is the enemy and who is not. I assume they just know when they appear. Maybe by the caster's intent.

That's how I've always played it, and it seems to work just fine.

If the summoned beastie didn't "just know," then the spell would become a lot less useful, since you have to be able to communicate with it to command it.

 

[Nail]

It would only be "less useful" in exploiting holes in the rules, you mean.

Player:"I cast Summon Monster I in this tavern here."

DM:"Okay...."

Player:"Does the monster attack anyone? If so, he/she/it must be my enemy, so I attack too."

DM:"!!!....You didn't read the "no cheese" memo, did you...."

 

[Victim]

Ok, I'll take a shot at this one.


So, my understanding is that the caster can designate any point within Close range for the creature to appear, by *defining* it (as in the spell text). For example, the definition might be "10 feet past this door". The spell automatically knows who your "opponents" are, simply because this is the only way it's playable. Just like the Bless spell automatically knows who your "allies" are. If you can speak the creature's language, and it can hear you through the door, then you can give it another command.
Hope that helps.

Wrong. You need line of effect. You can't summon stuff through walls and doors.

As far as enemy detection goes, I'd base things off whether or not the caster would attack.

 

[Nail]

Would the caster automatically attack orcs?

(If you would, I see an adventure hook staring you in the face.)