Drow items

[Fenes 2]

The reason why this new rule bothers me so much is that there is this undercurrent about it. As if I as a DM make situations that are challaging to my players and i dont reward them with stuff they can use that i am somehow being an "unreasonable" DM. An "adversarial" DM.

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Personally i find this new drow ruling to be one of many short, seemingly logical steps, towards promoting the idea that DM's must materially reward players. The first seamingly logical step was basing monster CRs off one particular concept for how much magic PC's should have. And then the CR's were used to generate exp.

As anyone can tell you, if you try to play DnD in low magic settings, you run into serious balance issues, making the game less flexible for people who like that type of play.

again i think the real problem is not world consistancy, economic issues, or item creation rules. the main problem is that players expect to be able to use drow weapons as regular weapons.

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IMC, I have very few magic items, but I have not too many problems with game balance since I usually use NPCs as opponents, not too many monsters, and tailor both types to my party. I also keep a tight watch on intra-party balance - I do not care how official a spell is, if it is unbalancing it gets banned or altered.

But the main reason I have not many problems is that my campaign is centered on roleplaying interactions and not on combat. Last night we had 5 hours filled with 3 receptions, one party, and one assassin's struggle to develop a willpower reducing drug ("Thrallwine" from Lords of Darkness) by the tried and true method of trial and error, self testing and clinical tests with "volunteered subjects".

Edit: Almost forgot. The PCs in that campaign are living in luxury in the decadent south, so monetary rewards are useless anyway, and magic items are scarce, so no one expects them on an average foe.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

Boy that vaunted flexibilty of 3e! Add some flavor to one races gear and the whole thing breaks.

j/k

But I have done away with the whole challange rating being based on how much magic a party of x level should have. It's stupid IMO. If you have players who are wanting to leave your game because they feel they are not getting the "right" amount of loot for an encounter be glad they are leaving!

 

[Xarlen]

I can understand the incentive to keep some equipment out of PCs hands, while letting NPCs be a challange (I have this problem). But there are other ways to do it then just Nuking the weapons. Trapped weapons (Ala Blade's sword), Drow only weapons (Like the Dwarven Thrower, why not have weapons that are more powerful for Drow and Drow only?), and Evil only items. Still does the same thing, but more importantly, It Doesn't Limit The Drow.

How about something that reacts harmfully to sunlight? Some clerical spell like Protection from Good, or the item emits a permenant Darkness in the presence of Sunlight?

One of the problems I have with Drow Weapons going poof is... Well, I have drow on the surface in my world. More pointedly, my PCs are about to go against a plot involving four factions, and two of those factions Are drow (Eilistraeens and the Drow beneath the High Forest), so having weapons that just go poof when touched with sunlight seems uneconomical when the Drow are going to be fighting on the surface.

Another is, well, I like playing drow. I'd like to play a Drow wizard or Monk (Blind master, woot! , but either all their equipment has to come from the surface, or it poofs if it's from home. Not to mention, in 2e, Spellcasters couldn't cast spells anywhere but the Underdark, either.

And, considering how I play in FR, or roughly 70% of FR, Magical Weapons are not rare things in my world.

Drow shouldn't be just a threat in their home. They should be able to be a threat anywhere, thus causing more of a Fear. Other then 'Oh, don't go down in the bowels of the world, or Drow will get you', more like 'Don't go out at Night'. That way PCs won't just assume Drow = Underdark, and thus just stay clear of it, or prepare just for them when they approach the Underdark.

Sure, the items melting when touched with sunlight has a 'Mystery' feel to it, as does becoming ill when Sunlight hits them, the weapons turning on good aligned wielders, or the weapon attracting some other Bad Mojo. Sort've a 'Last Laugh', where even if the drow are killed, the person owning their stuff doesn't Just lose it, but they get a final punch, and REGRET stealing the loot. THAT is Drowish.

 

[Ravellion]

Eh. I don't really have much more to add. I don't have all these 1st edition sources (that apparently did make sense, I wouldn't know), I just have the nonsense of 2e. Even within the confines of 2e, that stuff was a nightmare. Hence, I am glad they got rid of it.

Psion: My 'because the DM says so' wasn't a hyperbole. It was exactly how I perceived that some people would tell their players that it's 'time to cough up their drow weapons now'. Exactly because it is not a hyperbole, I was so opposed to it; (I think even you can imagine why) from a certain point onward, where everything that makes no sense whatsoever is replied to as such but the DM, there will be a feeling by the players that they are nothing but pawns in the DMs powertrip. I have been in games where the DMs NPC's could do everything my PCs couldn't 'beause the DM said so'. No reason whatsoever. If his NPC needed to do something they did it. If I needed to do something that was even slightly peculiar, I had to roll a natural 20 or embarass and enthreaten myself - The 'Because the Dm says so' approach only works as long as not overused.

Note that in this example, it mostly amde no sense to me because of me having no experience/exposure with/to any first editon drow references.

Flexor: I think it is a great DM tool for newbie (or time constrained) Dms - the thing is, some DMs still use the CR tool to determine what is challenging, but don't give out treasure using the 'treausre tool'. Could you imagine leaving a campaign where your PCs get slaughtered because they are continously pitched against stuff they are just unequipped to handle?

Rav

 

[psionotic]

I always hated the fact that drow items disintegrated in sunlight. Partially because it always seemed like it was a lazy designer's excuse for giving them great stuff: The PCs can't use it anyway, so why not have even the weakest example of the race have a +2 weapon?

The second reason is that it runs counter to the whole concept of the drow: That they are preparing themselves to avenge their subrace against the surface dwellers. After all, they aren't going to be able to hold Evermeet if their weapons turn to dust a couple of weeks after they conquer it.

So yes, I'm glad they are getting rid of the silly disintegrating weapons in the official texts. Of course, the great thing about an RPG is that those that people who like the old rule can add it back in as easily as they like.

 

[Endur]

Item destruction in sunlight made sense

There were a number of reasons in 1e why item destruction made sense.

First off, this was not the only place where magic items acted differently. If you went to the outer planes in 1e, your magic items were much weaker. Depending on the plane your +5 sword might be +4, or might degrade all the way down to +1. Magic items you found on the Outer planes might be +5 on the particular plane and then anywhere between +1 and +4 on the prime material plane.

Secondly, they needed an economic reason why the Dark Elves didn't conquer the surface world. Restricting their magic so that much of it only worked in the Underdark, restricted the ability of the Drow to invade the surface world. They could raid, but didn't really have the force to conquer.

This helped explain why you could have an underdark region which could challenge 10+ level characters at the same time you had an overland dungeon of goblins to challenge 1st level characters.

Another way to look at it, is the Drow wanted to mass produce magic items to equip their forces so that they could fight enemies that would only be hurt by magic weapons (elementals, etc.). It was cheaper to produce weapons that would only work in the Underdark than to produce weapons that will work anywhere.

When I gm, I have some of the Drow (lower-level one's ) equipped with the garbage that falls apart. The higher level Drow have durable items that work anywhere.

The PCs will mostly want the higher-level items anyways, so there are never any doubts or thoughts that the GM is screwing players out of magic items.

Also, I fully agree that a lot of the higher level items are going to be evil aligned. Unholy items should be all over the Drow city.

Tom

 

[Sejs]

I don't like that drow equipment would disintegrate upon contact with sunlight.

I have -never- liked that drow equipment would disintegrate, or lose it's potency upon contact with sunlight and/or taken away from 'mysterious underdark eminations'. In my oppinion it is lame, and more over, it is bad world building.


Taking a few plusses out of the equipment isn't going to totally defang the drow. They've still got wacky spell-like abilities, buckets of poison, thralls, more exotic weapons than you can shake a stick at, and usually pack more spell-casting than an entire conga line of Thayvians.


When I DM, drow gear is normal masterwork or exotic material or enchanted stuff, that would be appropriate to their occupation. Unholy longsword for the matriarch's bodyguard? You betcha! Figurine that radiates Desecrate? Put that bad boy on the priestess. NPCs use whatever resources they have available, including expendables, as they see fit.

A player that whines about me 'shafting' them because a monster is using 'their treasure' gets soundly slapped upside the head. Heads up! I'm a frickin' DM! I control the entire world. Do you really think it's that much of a stress to provide your characters with appropriate loot to their level?

 

[ConcreteBuddha]

Drow equipment? Bah. I'd never touch the stuff. A hero wouldn't be caught using a blade crafted by those demons and engraved by their foul touch. If you guys didn't know, drow are evil.




Oh yeah, and I like the disentegrating equipment.

Two reasons:

1) It's the only type that does. That makes it special.

2) Not every piece of equipment the PCs find should the PCs use. Disentegrating was actually a blessing for our party, as no surface dweller would buy equipment made by demons, and we couldn't just leave the stuff sitting around for the drow to use against us.

So we carted it back to the surface. Poof! Cleansed some evil! Back to the Underdark! Woot!