Drow items

[Ravellion]

Let's just look at the rules for a moment:

Drow Advancement: Class.

How to equip classed NPC's: Table on the last page of the characters chapter of the DMG, decribes 'NPC gear Value'

In the book (probably due to space restrictions) are no rules for Underdark weapons.

In the book, unlike in 2e, drow don't have any magical weapons to begin with (in 2e, even 1HD drow had +3 everything)

So, now what?:

Premise 1 - it costs the same, and does not disintegrate) If you equip all Drow with +x weapons for 'nostalgic purposes', how do they afford all this stuff? I mean, the 3e economy is pretty weird and unrealistic as it is... Do you really want to give 4th level fighter drow +x everything equipment, that can be taken above ground? Probably not. Besides, who paid the XP for the bazillion +3 swords, bucklers & chains anyway?

Premise 2- as 1, but it disintegrates) Still a bit weird for economic and XP purposes, but at least the PC's can't kill one drow patrol and get stinkingly rich. Unless of course they use 'tongues' and 'polymorph' and sell all the stuff to duergar or a rival drow city. Of course, the DM can just say 'no' to that, however well teh payers plan it. Har Har, I am the DM and you do as I say, and any creative thinking on your part will be futile, just follow my railroad.

Premise 3- it is cheaper and it disintegrates) The NPC gear value table will be more closely followed, and it is slightly more believable that every 1HD drow has 'kewl lewt', but not that much so. There are still apprarently lots and lots of wizards and clerics willing to spend XP to enchant the stuff.

Disintegrating drow equipment is a relic of 2nd edition that I am glad that has been removed. What about the players who only take out the +3 drow sword when in dungeons (Gloves of Storing anyone?)? Do their unbalancing swords disintegrate just because they are unbalancing? What about players who take out their drow swords at night? If it disintegrates at night, what weapons do the drow use on surface raids?

I think the (admittedly cool) idea only works in fiction, not in actual play.

Rav

 

[Arnwyn]

A bunch of very good posts.

Like others, I don't give a rat's patutie about what's "official" regarding drow weapons/armor (especially when the reasoning is very poor). They disintegrate in my campaign.

 

[Fenes 2]

I think the (admittedly cool) idea only works in fiction, not in actual play.

It works pretty well if your PCs do not expect to be able to use drow weapons. As others have said, no one expects to be able to use a dragon's breath weapon, or a ghoul's paralyzing touch after defeating them, so why make an excpetion for the drow?

IMC, drow weapons are not inherently magical, most low-level drows "have to do" with masterwork weapons and greater magic weapon spell buffs. Higher-level drow will have magic weapons, and IMHO, it is only common sense for drows to make weapons that cannot be used by the surface-dwellers, just as many good clerics will not make "common magic weapons", but weapons only good people are able to wield.

And as far as the remarks against stiffling player creativity goes: If a DM and his group have such wide differences with regards to treasure options, then no amount of rules will help them. Either the DM wants to regulate how much magic items his group's PCs have, and the players accept this, or he does not want to, and the players have free reign. Should he want to regulate the treasure and the players do not want to comply, then strife is bound to happen.
IMHO, if I as the DM cannot control the power level of the campaign, and what amount if treasure the PCs have and recieve, then don't expect me to DM. I am very willing to bend to player wishes, but I retain the final say whether or not something is unbalancing my game.

 

[Ravellion]

A bunch of very good posts.

Like others, I don't give a rat's patutie about what's "official" regarding drow weapons/armor (especially when the reasoning is very poor). They disintegrate in my campaign.

It's not so much what is official - I mean, the only reason you are using it now is because it was official at one point in time - but what makes sense and what is an extremely cumbersome rule, which will create problems if you have players who tend to 'think out of the box'. Drow are now no longer standardly equipped with powerful weapons. Are you giving them out still?

So what do you do when the group uses Bags of Holding and Gloves of Storing to use (at that point in the campaign) unbalancing drow weapons and armour? Send rust monsters at them?

(if people are wondering, I play only 10% of the games, the other 90% I am the DM)

Rav

 

[Henry]

Disintegrating drow equipment is a relic of 2nd edition that I am glad that has been removed. What about the players who only take out the +3 drow sword when in dungeons (Gloves of Storing anyone?)? Do their unbalancing swords disintegrate just because they are unbalancing? What about players who take out their drow swords at night? If it disintegrates at night, what weapons do the drow use on surface raids?

One other addendum that many people overlook: after 31-90 days, (randomly determined), drow equipment not exposed to the weird radiations of their homeland, even if carefully shielded, lose their bonuses. If returned to their homeland for at least 90 days, they will resume their effectiveness.

If players want to pursue THAT little dance with the Devil, then more power to them.

P.S. -- Under the G-D-Q series, Drow were never seen less than 2nd level. the drow generally had plussed equipment equal to one-half to one-third their level. drow foot soldiers had +1 short sword, +1 elven chain, +1 bucklers, and drow cloaks and boots; the 5th or 6th level captains had +2 stuff, and the 9th level "big boys and girls" had +3 equipment (including +3 plate mail) all 'round.

 

[drnuncheon]

I don't get it at all what treasure has to do with CR. As others have said, CR is how challenging a creature is. Risk vs. reward does not influence it a bit. All that matters for CR is how dificult a creature is to defeat.

A 5th level fighter armed with +3 sword, +3 chainmail and a +3 shield is a great deal more difficult to defeat than a 5th level fighter armed with ratty clothes and a pointed stick.

That's what treasure has to do with CR.

J

 

[drnuncheon]

One other addendum that many people overlook: after 31-90 days, (randomly determined), drow equipment not exposed to the weird radiations of their homeland, even if carefully shielded, lose their bonuses. If returned to their homeland for at least 90 days, they will resume their effectiveness.

If players want to pursue THAT little dance with the Devil, then more power to them.

That would work for the bag of holding, but not the glove of storing - I mean, if you can hold a lit torch in stasis without it burning out, it's going to stop the decay of drow weapons as well.

J

 

[Ravellion]

One other addendum that many people overlook: after 31-90 days, (randomly determined), drow equipment not exposed to the weird radiations of their homeland, even if carefully shielded, lose their bonuses. If returned to their homeland for at least 90 days, they will resume their effectiveness.

If players want to pursue THAT little dance with the Devil, then more power to them.

Read Glove of Storing again: The item (probably a weapon) is in stasis. Do you have any idea how long it will take for the 31st day to arrive? Although this will prove to be a problem for the armour in the bag of holding... they'll just have to sell that to the duergar or something, gaining unseemly amounts of cash for all the +3 items, piwafwi, sleeping poison etc.

edit: Blast, Drnuncheon beat me to it...

Still, I would like people to actually discuss my qualms against the disintegrating subject. And I'll have to agree with Drnuncheon's "CR is raised by magical weapons", disintegrating or not.

Rav

 

[Chun-tzu]

As for item creation, according to the books, they just set magical items in a room, and the radiation of the Underdark makes it magical. The way I understand this, they just make Masterwork stuff, stick it in a spot where the radiation is strong for about a year, and the magical radiation makes it magical. Atleast, that's how they get +1 items. More Powerful stuff is created.

I can see it now. A Drow with very long hair and fingernails is sitting in a room full of swords, bows, and armor. A Drow patrol passes by, and one of them asks, "Are they magic yet?" and they all laugh. The Drow, dressed in Monk robes, looks at his hands which don't feel any different, and sighs.

 

[herald]

After reading the DMG about magic item creation and the curses section I got to thinking that I could easily see characters adding restrictions to weapons to prevent them from falling into the wrong hands.

Why wouldn't clerics of St. Cuthbert add restrictions into +1 maces to prevent evil Clerics from using them.

My take is that adding the disintegrating feature drives the cost up. Not by much, its a feature that Drow Priests put into the swords to make sure that powerful Drow don't defect to the surface.

But I would also consider that a character with the "Create magic Arms and Armor Feat" could perform a repair of said item.

Now I'm not sure how I would do that, perhaps it would have to be a combination of Feat, Remove Curse and some XP. A sort of "Retempering" of the weapon/item.

I would think that Curses, Restrictions or Conditions should be part of a breakout system away from the typical cost of making a magical device.

Therefore, you create the magical item, then you add the cost of what ever the cost of the Curse, Restriction or Condition, and you have the price of what the item should be.