Druid in PHB II

[Christian]

Make no mistake about it, the PHBII's variant rules are a downgrade. Trade in an animal companion and wild shape for a +4 enhancement bonus to Str, a movement increase, a 1d6 bite attack, and...well, that's about it really. All your magic gear goes away in that form, so I really don't see the AC bonus as a big plus.

It's definitely an overall power-down--how much of one depends on your level. At 3rd, for example, I'd say it's a net slight increase, as your animal companion is really a bit of a liability rather than an asset at that point, and you don't get regular wildshape yet. But for the most part, you won't be as tough in combat as a standard-issue druid.

I still like it, because: a) keeping track of an animal companion is a pain, b) keeping track of virtually unlimited wildshape options & your alternate stats in those forms is a pain, and c) keeping track of uses per day is a pain. And I hate pain. Plus, I really don't like the flavor of Natural Spell, but you can't pass it up without cutting your own throat. And, while you can get effectively 'unlimited' wildshape for combat purposes by 8th level (three uses per day at 8 hours each, picking a good combat form and staying in that form all day), I don't like the flavor of that so much either. I'm an elf that can take a panther or eagle form, not a bear that will sometimes revert to elf form in order to converse, dangit. (Although I find, in practice, that I'm very often in animal shape most of the day when travelling in the wilderness. Predator speed and/or flight are just so useful for scouting and eating up mileage.)

I agree that an aquatic form would be awfully handy ...

 

[Nyaricus]

Well, even if it might underpower a druid from a druids standpoint, from the standpoint of every other class, this is a Good Thing (tm). Druids were overpowered, and are now not as wonky.

Personally, I like the concept of the animal companion, and was sorry to see it go. Maybe if one were to trade a druids spells for a bards advancement (ie 7th level only) you could throw the animal companion back in. Just a cursary fix, though.

In any case, in my new D&D group, I ahev a player who's PC is an elven Animalshape Druid, and I like it way better. Less to keep track of, that way

And personally, I like it way better. Possibly one of the best alternate packages in that whole book

 

[iceifur]

Personally, I love the Shapeshift variant. It manages to clear away most of the rules detritus of the Polymorph chain while still keeping the delicious flavor of changing shape -- by using an established rules idea (the "template").

Hell, I liked it so much, I did a lower-powered port to Castles and Crusades (for a homebrewed class). Fun times.

 

[MarkB]

All your magic gear goes away in that form, so I really don't see the AC bonus as a big plus.

Bear in mind that if you're using the current errata'd rules this is true of Wild Shape as well.

It does mean that investing in offense/defense-enhancing items is less useful for druids now. I'm playing a shapeshift druid, and have invessted a lot less in constant-effect items than I usually would.

 

[Felon]

Bear in mind that if you're using the current errata'd rules this is true of Wild Shape as well.

Yes, but you currently receive much better bonuses from wildshaping.

 

[Urbanmech]

I think the bonuses from Shapeshift stack up pretty well to Wild Shape until you get to Elemental Shape, where Wild Shape has the clear advantage. Shapeshift druids will have less raw strength than a WS druid, but they make up for it by getting a free +1 enhancement bonus to hit and damage per 4 levels. For Ferocious Slayer Form that is equal to 3 3rd level spells. Plus all of the forms get free feats, Improved Critical for Claw and Bite is pretty sweet. SS druids will also on average have a much better AC than WS druids. Ferocious Slayer gives +8 AC, very few animals have AC 17 without any dex added in.

I do think that Animal Companion should be added in as an optional feat or made into a feat tree for Shapeshift Druids.

 

[Drowbane]

Nerf wildshape if you must, but leave my "pet" the hell alone!

...I do think that Animal Companion should be added in as an optional feat or made into a feat tree for Shapeshift Druids.

Personally, I'd rather play a Druid who has a companion and spells (much like Aspect of Wolf) that allow him to take the form of specific animals for a moderate duration (10 min/level rather than hr/level).

 

[brendan candries]

I think the bonuses from Shapeshift stack up pretty well to Wild Shape until you get to Elemental Shape, where Wild Shape has the clear advantage. Shapeshift druids will have less raw strength than a WS druid, but they make up for it by getting a free +1 enhancement bonus to hit and damage per 4 levels.

Actually, I consider the SS elemental forms superior to the WS ones, certainly levels 16-19 (WS becomes huge only at level 20). Remember that WS druids fall back to 1-3 elemental changes per day.

For Ferocious Slayer Form that is equal to 3 3rd level spells. Plus all of the forms get free feats, Improved Critical for Claw and Bite is pretty sweet.

Too bad all the forms get superseded by the next form. Predator quickly becomes nothing more than a speed 50 form.

SS druids will also on average have a much better AC than WS druids. Ferocious Slayer gives +8 AC, very few animals have AC 17 without any dex added in.

True that. It even improves with Avenger and Elemental forms. The big weakness would be touch AC though.

 

[Space Coyote]

Well, even if it might underpower a druid from a druids standpoint, from the standpoint of every other class, this is a Good Thing (tm). Druids were overpowered, and are now not as wonky.

Overpowered? Really? I keep using houserules to give Druids more "oomf" because my players wont play one. My house rules are:
-Druids may spontaneously cast cure/inflict wounds based on ethos (good/evil), just like clerics.
-Druids may spontaneously any spell with Animal or Plant in the name.
-Druids get the Animal and Plant domains

Out of the 6 years or so of playing D&D 3rd ed, I have only had 2 players play Druids (myself from level 3 to 5 and another played a level 8 Druid for a few sessions, then "retired" the character and made a Barbarian).

I am going to try a Druid again in a new campaign starting this Saturday.

 

[MarkB]

Overpowered? Really?

Druids have:

• Spellcasting power equivalent to a Cleric, and comparable to a Wizard
• Wildshape ability that makes them comparable to dedicated fighters in combat, and grants them massive versatility
• An animal companion which grows to become an excellent melee combatant itself
• Spontaneous summoning that allows them to bring in other powerful allies when needed
• Sundry other class features that are very handy (compare their list of class features to the cleric's)

Plus they don't spontaneously heal, so they get to use all those spells, and the Druid spell list is very nice these days.