Druids and fighters- wildshape and all sorts of fun

[Tric]

Then get Sense Weakness from Draconomicon. Very, very useful. That's why you get Sense Weakness from the Draconomicon. Very, very useful.

The reqs are very high. Not very attractive.

Seems they stack.

DMG, page 21: "Usually a named bonus does not stack with another bonus of the same name, except for dodge bonuses and some circumstance bonuses."

 

[ksbsnowowl]

... It's not that great, really. You're restricted to Small and Medium dragons, even at 20th level.

Even with the size restriction the feat is awesome.....the versatility is amazing. Just look at a young adult shadow dragon. 80 ft movement, 120 ft fly speed, +19 natural armor, full concealment in all but full daylight (or a daylight spell), immunity to energy drain, a breath weapon that deals two negative levels, frightful presence, DR 5/magic, and SR 20 (not great, but it's there).

Versatility is the key, Amethyst dragons grant a Force breath weapon, and all gem dragons allow you to plane shift through the material and inner planes.

Silver dragons give you immunity to two elements, and with the Druid spell Energy Immunity (also in the Draconomicon) you can eliminate your energy vulnerability, making you immune to 3 elements. They also effectively grant you 3 extra wildshape uses per day via its alternate form ability.

Pyroclastic dragons grant you a disintegration breath weapon (low DC, but useful against walls of force, and the like).

Faerie dragons grant a 100 ft fly speed with perfect manuverability and SR 18.

Oceanus dragons gain smite evil and water breathing, in addition to DR and a decen natural armor (+13).

Rust dragons gain a rusting bite attack, DR 10/magic vs. metal weapons, and SR 16.

Tarterian dragons gain Freedom of Movement.

Several dragons offer fairly high-damaging breath weapons, such as the Battle Dragon (8d6 sonic), Silver (6d8 cold, IIRC), and IIRC, both the Deep Dragon and Song dragon from MoF have 8d8 breath weapons.

Not to mention nearly all grant Blindsense, Keen vision/Low-light vision, Darkvision, immunity to magic sleep effects and paralysis, and scent.

Recently on the Character Optimization boards on the WotC site someone compiled all the available dragon forms, and their abilities. The feat is really quite versatil.

 

[Hypersmurf]

DMG, page 21: "Usually a named bonus does not stack with another bonus of the same name, except for dodge bonuses and some circumstance bonuses."

Yes, but it's not a racial +2 Natural Armor bonus to AC, and an amulet +1 Natural Armor bonus to AC, giving two non-stacking Natural Armor bonuses for a total bonus of +2.

It's a racial +2 Natural Armor bonus to AC, and an amulet +1 enhancement bonus to Natural Armor bonus. The racial bonus is enhanced from +2 to +3, resulting in only one Natural Armor bonus, so stacking isn't an issue.

Leather armor gives a +2 armor bonus to AC. +1 Leather armor doesn't give a +2 armor bonus to AC and a +1 enhancement bonus to AC; it gives a +3 armor bonus to AC (+2 armor bonus, and a +1 enhancement bonus to armor bonus, improving the armor bonus from +2 to +3).

The Amulet is the same concept.

-Hyp.

 

[Jdvn1]

The reqs are very high. Not very attractive.

Two feats is high? Both prereq feats are also very useful and one should seriously consider getting them.

 

[Jdvn1]

Even with the size restriction the feat is awesome.....the versatility is amazing. Just look at a young adult shadow dragon. 80 ft movement, 120 ft fly speed, +19 natural armor, full concealment in all but full daylight (or a daylight spell), immunity to energy drain, a breath weapon that deals two negative levels, frightful presence, DR 5/magic, and SR 20 (not great, but it's there).

Versatility is the key, Amethyst dragons grant a Force breath weapon, and all gem dragons allow you to plane shift through the material and inner planes.

Silver dragons give you immunity to two elements, and with the Druid spell Energy Immunity (also in the Draconomicon) you can eliminate your energy vulnerability, making you immune to 3 elements. They also effectively grant you 3 extra wildshape uses per day via its alternate form ability.

Pyroclastic dragons grant you a disintegration breath weapon (low DC, but useful against walls of force, and the like).

Faerie dragons grant a 100 ft fly speed with perfect manuverability and SR 18.

Oceanus dragons gain smite evil and water breathing, in addition to DR and a decen natural armor (+13).

Rust dragons gain a rusting bite attack, DR 10/magic vs. metal weapons, and SR 16.

Tarterian dragons gain Freedom of Movement.

Several dragons offer fairly high-damaging breath weapons, such as the Battle Dragon (8d6 sonic), Silver (6d8 cold, IIRC), and IIRC, both the Deep Dragon and Song dragon from MoF have 8d8 breath weapons.

Not to mention nearly all grant Blindsense, Keen vision/Low-light vision, Darkvision, immunity to magic sleep effects and paralysis, and scent.

Recently on the Character Optimization boards on the WotC site someone compiled all the available dragon forms, and their abilities. The feat is really quite versatil.

I was pretty sure it only applied to True Dragons.

 

[Tric]

Yes, but it's not a racial +2 Natural Armor bonus to AC, and an amulet +1 Natural Armor bonus to AC, giving two non-stacking Natural Armor bonuses for a total bonus of +2.

It's a racial +2 Natural Armor bonus to AC, and an amulet +1 enhancement bonus to Natural Armor bonus. The racial bonus is enhanced from +2 to +3, resulting in only one Natural Armor bonus, so stacking isn't an issue.

Leather armor gives a +2 armor bonus to AC. +1 Leather armor doesn't give a +2 armor bonus to AC and a +1 enhancement bonus to AC; it gives a +3 armor bonus to AC (+2 armor bonus, and a +1 enhancement bonus to armor bonus, improving the armor bonus from +2 to +3).

The Amulet is the same concept.

-Hyp.

Maybe there's been a misunderstanding. I know/agree with this, and it is not what I was saying. What I said is that, for example, you have a pair of boots and an amulet, and both give a +2 enhancement to natural armor (and as far as I know, most bonuses to natural armor are enhancement bonuses), they wouldn't stack.

Armor of The Crocodile (Nature's Warrior) is interesting, as it *does* stack with other Natural Armor bonuses. Quite useful.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Maybe there's been a misunderstanding. I know/agree with this, and it is not what I was saying. What I said is that, for example, you have a pair of boots and an amulet, and both give a +2 enhancement to natural armor (and as far as I know, most bonuses to natural armor are enhancement bonuses), they wouldn't stack.

Ah, right.

I believe when ergeheilalt said "seems they stack", he meant the Natural Armor bonus from the Wildshaped form, and the enhancement bonus to natural armor from the amulet.

When you posted the note about like bonuses not stacking, I assumed you were disagreeing with that

Armor of The Crocodile (Nature's Warrior) is interesting, as it *does* stack with other Natural Armor bonuses. Quite useful.

Where's he from? I'd be interested to see the wording...

-Hyp.

 

[ksbsnowowl]

I was pretty sure it only applied to True Dragons.

That would be the Dragon Wildshape [Epic] feat (from the ELH). I'm talking about the Dragon Wildshape [General, Wild?] feat from the Draconomicon. They are two completely different feats. Is it unfortunate that WotC gave two different feats the same name? Yes, but they are two different feats.

 

[Jdvn1]

That would be the Dragon Wildshape [Epic] feat (from the ELH). I'm talking about the Dragon Wildshape [General, Wild?] feat from the Draconomicon. They are two completely different feats. Is it unfortunate that WotC gave two different feats the same name? Yes, but they are two different feats.

I was also talking about the one from the Draconomicon. I considered taking that feat and turned it down, although that was a while ago.

 

[SidusLupus]

Nature's Warrior is from the Complete Warrior.

After getting severely beat down by a few ogres I'm seriously considering taking armor of the crocodile first. fast healing or damage will do diddly if i can't survive.

Thanks for the suggestions, I was able to switch out my hide armor for some MW Darkleaf and that stuff is really nice.

Was also able to pick up combat expertise in exchange for improved init, after I switched str for int. DM was nice enough to allow the change since the character was built rather quickly.

I must say without combat expertise the ogres would have killed me. =/

Sense Weakness is absolutely awesome. especially if you consider without it, the only type of DR I could surpass while wildshaped is magic, with Greater Magic Fang. And it works on hardness!