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Druids and Multiattack

Kmart Kommando

First Post
If I were playing a druid, I'd take that feat. Though I like the PHBII variant better. I would switch it to Claw/Claw/Bite instead of Bite/Claw/Claw which make more sense, considering a druid is turning into an animal shape, where Claw primary and Bite secondary is standard for everything.
 

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Hypersmurf

Moderatarrrrh...
Kmart Kommando said:
I would switch it to Claw/Claw/Bite instead of Bite/Claw/Claw which make more sense, considering a druid is turning into an animal shape, where Claw primary and Bite secondary is standard for everything.

Cheetah:
Full Attack: Bite +6 melee (1d6+3) and 2 claws +1 melee (1d2+1)

Leopard:
Full Attack: Bite +6 melee (1d6+3) and 2 claws +1 melee (1d3+1)

Almost everything.

-Hyp.
 

Infiniti2000

First Post
Jack Simth said:
Any Druid seriously contemplating taking Multiattack is probably doing so because the Druid is spending a LOT of time in Wildshape.
Wait, there are druid not spending a lot of time in Wildshape?! :confused:
 

Infiniti2000

First Post
Jack Simth said:
... as opposed to a Rogue-4 dropping 8 ranks into a skill when leveling to 5th in which previously there were none?
As opposed to nothing, actually. Unless, of course, in your opinion two wrongs make a right.
 

Jack Simth

First Post
Infiniti2000 said:
Wait, there are druid not spending a lot of time in Wildshape?! :confused:
Yes - especially with the various variant druids that lose Wildshape. Any Druid at levels 1, 2, 3, or 4 spends no time at all in Wildshape (as it is simply not available). A Druid in a more social campaign, or one where the DM enforces the communication restrictions inherent in Wildshape (and makes them matter), will likely spend a lot of time in "normal" form.

Plus there's the ones where for RP reasons, the character doesn't want to be an animal all day. Or the ones with players who think it's overpowered if used a lot and only turn it on for specific tasks.

In short, yes, there are Druids who don't spend a lot of time in Wildshape - they're just not looking to maximize their effectiveness.

Infiniti2000 said:
As opposed to nothing, actually. Unless, of course, in your opinion two wrongs make a right.
The point is that, as a granularity issue, it's inherent to the game; there is no real getting around it.

The Barbarian leveling from 1st to 2nd level can potentially double his HP (1 in 12 chance; more likely with a Wizard, as that has a 1 in 4 chance). If it's a gradual increase, shouldn't the barbarian have been able to continue standing just yesterday when he was reduced to -1 HP?

The Druid leveling from 5th to 6th more than doubles the amount of time he can spend in animal shape (goes from 5 hours max to 12 hours max, by way of two uses at 6 hours).

The Sorcerer-7, when leveling up to 8th, is suddenly able to cast four Empowered Scorching rays, when previously unable to cast even a single Empowered Scorching Ray.

The D&D system even has some built-in defenses against most powergaming this way - Con higher when you level? Doesn't matter - your max HP is as variable as your Con is; when the bonus goes away, so do the extra HP. Qualify for the feat by way of a temporary strength boost? You can't use a feat when you no longer meet the prerequisites. Long-term intelligence boosters (except the permanent ones, such as the inherent bonus from a Wish) specify that they don't grant extra skill points.

It's a granularity issue, similar to how a cat has a very good chance of taking down a commoner-1 in a single round - it's fundamentally inherent to any modeling system; there will be oddities if you look at it too closely. It will always be there in some way, shape, or form (offer void if you're using quantum dice that are quite happily giving you random irrational numbers for results) no matter how much you house-rule things. You may not like it, but in order to continue playing the game, you have to accept some degree of it.

As a DM, just draw a line somewhere; you can only qualify for the feat with a round/level buff effect? No; you can't keep that up long enough to practice with it. You can qualify for it by way of an hour/level effect that you can do a couple of times per day (especially if it is one you're routinely using anyway)? Why not? It's practically always-on anyway.
 
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milo

First Post
As a DM I have always ruled that you can take any feat. The only time they function is when you meet the prereqs. They also don't function for any feats chained for them if you don't meet the prereqs. I have had sorcerers take power attack with a strength of 12, cast bull's strength and go to town with his strength of 16. I don't know if it is the best system, but it works for me.
 

frankthedm

First Post
Kmart Kommando said:
If I were playing a druid, I'd take that feat. Though I like the PHBII variant better. I would switch it to Claw/Claw/Bite instead of Bite/Claw/Claw which make more sense, considering a druid is turning into an animal shape, where Claw primary and Bite secondary is standard for everything.
Bite primary, two claws secondary was a game balance choice.
 

Kmart Kommando

First Post
Hypersmurf said:
Cheetah:
Full Attack: Bite +6 melee (1d6+3) and 2 claws +1 melee (1d2+1)

Leopard:
Full Attack: Bite +6 melee (1d6+3) and 2 claws +1 melee (1d3+1)

Almost everything.

-Hyp.
that's why I said standard, of which those are not.



frankthedm said:
Bite primary, two claws secondary was a game balance choice.
against what? when you shift, all your saves tank, all your bling is gone and you're just a smart animal. Even a house cat, bane of the commoner, has claw/claw/bite. You also have to house rule a few things just to let the druid cast many of his buffing spells on himself. Greater Magic Fang? no claws, no bite when normal form, so no target for the spell. Enlarge Animal? not an animal until shifted. I'm sure it can be super-powered if you pile on enough cheese, but as is, it isn't as strong as a standard druid, though it looks more fun to play.
 

Hypersmurf

Moderatarrrrh...
Kmart Kommando said:
that's why I said standard, of which those are not.

So by "Claw primary, bite secondary is standard for everything", you meant "Claw primary, bite secondary is standard for everything except for non-standard things"?

-Hyp.
 

Jack99

Adventurer
yipwyg42 said:
I was wondering if druids can take this feat for their wild shape abilities.

Thanks

Yes

The fact that the druid can spend a significant amount of time per day in wildshape (hours), is what makes it okay in my book.
 

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