Druids too powerful?

[Dark Dragon]

Actually, the druid would become type "magical beast" because they have an int. score more than 2. In the MM, it specifically states that an animal cannot have more than a 2 intelligence.

Therefore, it is impossible to animal growth a druid using wild shape because the druid is a magical beast and not an animal, unless said Druid wishes to drop their intelligence to a 2.

Dave

I completely agree on that.
But the rules are contradictory here: The PHB (Polymorph) says that the type changes, but INT, WIS and CHA don't.
The MM says that an animal can't have INT above 2.
According to the new errata for the PHB and the "First/Second Source" ruling from WotC the PHB is right here, because it's the first source: Wild Shape refers to Polymorph, Polymorph changes type, but not the mind of the caster.
Ergo: Animal Growth works.

A little dilemma. Seems to be a case for house ruling or waiting for the next PHB errata or FAQ.
Or better: Take the Wild Shape version printed in MotW...

Hmm, I'm absolutely not sure how to handle it...the taste of power is sweet.. but powerplay will become annoying.

 

[Hardhead]

I completely agree on that.
But the rules are contradictory here: The PHB (Polymorph) says that the type changes, but INT, WIS and CHA don't.
The MM says that an animal can't have INT above 2.
According to the new errata for the PHB and the "First/Second Source" ruling from WotC the PHB is right here, because it's the first source: Wild Shape refers to Polymorph, Polymorph changes type, but not the mind of the caster.
Ergo: Animal Growth works.

A little dilemma. Seems to be a case for house ruling or waiting for the next PHB errata or FAQ.
Or better: Take the Wild Shape version printed in MotW...

Hmm, I'm absolutely not sure how to handle it...the taste of power is sweet.. but powerplay will become annoying.

Also the new PHB errata SPECIFICALLY states that druid animal companions are animals despite special abilities, ect. I wouldn't look for errata any time soon.

 

[Belen]

I would say that Polymorph does change type; however, the type would be magical beast and not animal. Therefore, you could never use Polymorph/ Wildshape to change to the animal type, unless you polymorphed something already an "animal."

The type would be "magical beast" because any animal with more than a 2 intelligence is a magical beast.

Dave

 

[Nifft]

A 17th level Druid could have Rusting Grasp'd the Iron Golem to death, too, without resorting to high-level spells at all.

Fear the Druid with Fly-By Attack.

-- N

 

[Argent Silvermage]

A 17th level Druid could have Rusting Grasp'd the Iron Golem to death, too, without resorting to high-level spells at all.

Fear the Druid with Fly-By Attack.

-- N

You know it. Casting Transmute metal to wood rocks also.

 

[buzzard]

There's no reason for a wild shaped druid not to use Improved grab: He still threatens adjacent squares, retains his DEX-Bonus and may direct remaining attacks against other foes. He can separate a grappled foe from others by pulling him away and deal damage in one round. Animal Growth increases success of a grapple by increasing strength and size.
If the druid is attacked by three or more foes, he's in trouble when attacked with magic weapons (otherwise, DR 10/magic helps a lot).

Ummm, where does the DR come from?

Actually I guess I should be asking about more than that. You have 3 non core spells in your build, so I can't very well understand how you've gotten the totals that you have.

However, if I take a fighter, enlarge him, and bull strength him, he won't be all that far behind on the grapple since he gets his better BAB involved. If I start with a fighter from a large race (1/2 ogre maybe), he'll out-grapple that bear. Also we have to make sure we give the fighter improved grapple (which, given the likely frequency of grappling implied in 3.5- is a necessity, though it will cost 2 feats). By this point he would probably be able to beat the bear on a regular basis on grapples.

Though since I don't know every tweak you've applied with the mystery spells, I should stick to my original point.

Your AC sucks. When fighting more than just one big bad guy, Mr. Bear is going to get tagged on all the iterative attacks in a full attack. Since Mr. Bear only has the HP of Mr. Druid, I don't like his chances.

buzzard

 

[Dark Dragon]

You know it. Casting Transmute metal to wood rocks also.

No, it allows SR. AFAIK, an iron golem is immune to all spells that allow SR, with a very few exceptions (fire and electricity spells).

Ummm, where does the DR come from?

See Animal Growth. It grants DR 10/magic, +4 resistance to saves, +4 size bonus to CON, +8 size bonus to STR, -2 size penalty to DEX, +2 natural armor bonus. Size goes up by one category.

Actually I guess I should be asking about more than that. You have 3 non core spells in your build, so I can't very well understand how you've gotten the totals that you have.

Well, Animal Growth, GMF and Haste are core spells. The STR-bonus granted by Bear's Heart (a level 4 spell) can be replaced by Bull's Strength. The two other spells I mentioned ([/I]Nature's Favor, Nature's Avatar[/i]) were not involved in the fight with the golem, they were just an option for additional buffing.

However, if I take a fighter, enlarge him, and bull strength him, he won't be all that far behind on the grapple since he gets his better BAB involved.
If I start with a fighter from a large race (1/2 ogre maybe), he'll out-grapple that bear. Also we have to make sure we give the fighter improved grapple (which, given the likely frequency of grappling implied in 3.5- is a necessity, though it will cost 2 feats). By this point he would probably be able to beat the bear on a regular basis on grapples.

Perhaps. But how many damage will a grappling fighter dish out? I doubt that he'll reach the 2d6+17 per claw attack of an AG'ed dire bear.

Though since I don't know every tweak you've applied with the mystery spells, I should stick to my original point.

Your AC sucks. When fighting more than just one big bad guy, Mr. Bear is going to get tagged on all the iterative attacks in a full attack. Since Mr. Bear only has the HP of Mr. Druid, I don't like his chances.
buzzard

Animal Growth grants a +4 size bonus to CON, so HP get a bit higher. DR 10/magic is very good if the druid does not fight dragons or NPCs with magic weapons. If the druid has enough time, he could buff himself with [/I]Cat's Grace[/i] and Barkskin to get a better AC. Summoning one or two other tough animals and AG them will turn the tide perhaps.

 

[Argent Silvermage]

No, it allows SR. AFAIK, an iron golem is immune to all spells that allow SR, with a very few exceptions (fire and electricity spells).

I was just talking in general. Golems suck but can be dealt with in other ways.

 

[Macbeth]

My two bits: I've never seen an ubalanced druid, if anything they seem week most of the time.

 

[Brekki]

The DM in our City of the Spider Queen is very wary of my druid / animal lord (bears), and his companion, a brown bear, who both grapple an extreme amount of nice medium sized drow

At the moment, they're the best frontline fighters, but then ... we have no fighters, clerics or barbarians in the group, because they all tend to die