Druids too powerful?

[Zaruthustran]

Fine -- give the druid in the example only the buffs with durations of 10 min/level or more -- these are ones that characters will have up before any encounter, generally. Barkskin, greater magic fang, and stoneskin might do it. Then let them at it.

I'm still interested in seeing a test of a normal PC fighter vs. a normal PC druid. As I said before, a normal sixth-level PC fighter goes down before a normal brown bear most of the time; I'm just surprised at folks' suggestions that a high-level fighter would, unless designed specifically to stand vs. a druid of equal level, have much of a chance, when the druid has the options of improved grab + animal growth.

Daniel

And don't forget the Druid's animal companion. If you're pitting PC class vs. PC class you've got to include all class features of each class. Give the fighter his armor and feats, give the druid his spells, wildshape, and big furry buddy.

-z

 

[Plane Sailing]

Anyways, if a fighter's weakness is grapple, then probably most high level fighters will pick up Close Quarter Fighting.

I would always assume a ring of free action as a pretty much mandatory item for high level fighters in the D&D environment, just as anti-scry precautions are mandatory to avoid scry-buff-teleport encounters.

Personally I don't like that, and thus my campaign isn't a typical D&D environment; I've made changes appropriate for the world I want to run

 

[Darklone]

Does a ring of free action help against Swallowing? Hehehehe.

 

[Dark Dragon]

Umm, all high level spellcasters SHOULD be prepared to deal with challenges involving SR and immunities, just because so many high level monsters have such abilities. If you can't deal with SR and immunity, YOU'RE A BAD WIZARD.

The wizards used a wide range of their spells (e.g. different energy types) to find out the golem's immunities. As I said, this was a special iron golem with keen wounding weapons and possibly more hit points as a normal one. It was quickly clear that the melee-guys need an adamtine weapon to harm the golem. So one caster summoned up a djinn and ordered him to create an adamantine longsword. The golem killed that djinn too quickly...The cleric was a bit low on spells due to a previous fight and after being critted two times by the golem forced to retreat. One wizard has the spell-penetration feat, IIRC, the other has specialized on counterspelling.

Similarly, the current metagame requires combat characters to deal with a variety of different resistances. Sadly, your party probably got up to 17th level playing 3.0E, so nobody bothered to run out and get some adamantine weapons. Once the party fixes up that little problem, they should be able to cleave through iron golems like nobody's business.

Hehe, the druid had a longspear with an adamantine tip, but it was lost in 3.0...But after that encounter, we'll search for adamantine weapons, I think.

Also, nobody seems to have pointed out the obvious, namely, that a 17th level monk would have reduced that iron golem to scrap, too, without any preparation. Probably in 2 rounds.

Hmm, it was a tough golem. Maybe the monk would have made it, but not without serious wounds.

I'm also quite interested in a duel of an average druid against an average fighter.
The problems are, as was already mentioned, the druid's tactic works for all melee fights unless a special prepared fighter or monster is used and the wild shape - Animal Growth combo. Other spellcasters could be in trouble if not prepared for a specific encounter, fighters could be in trouble if they have not the right weapon or equipment.

The druid's tactic worked also very good during a very tough fight in Lord of the Iron Fortress...

 

[two]

regarding power

There is also the issue of being "light on stats," meaning (in point-buy land) a druid is very easy to create. Get Con and Wisdom as high as you can get, and everything else does not matter. 10 is fine, 8 is even fine.

This is because wild shape takes care of the physical stuff, so you can scrip and save precious point-buy points and plug them into Con/Wisdom.

Also, unlike any other class, there is a race strangely suited to them... Gnomes. Boost to Con, and the Str hit does not matter (see WildShape). Speed does not matter (see WildShape). Etc.

So, for example, a 28 point-buy gnome druid could have:

Str: 6 (0 points)
Con: (18 10 points)
Dex: 8 (0 points)
Wis: 18 (16 poitns)
Int: 8 (0 points)
Ch: 8 (0 points)

With 2 points left over for someplace. Dex, or Int, whatever. This is very min/maxxy, but the idea is there. or knock Wisdom to 17 and put those x-tra 3 points somewhere else for flavor.

These are VERY strong stats for 28 point-buy. Very high survivability, and as soon as Wildshape gets OK excellent melee and etc. opportunities. Plus DC's are high, etc.

You could say the same about Wizards (just Int. and Con necessary) but the point is Druids get their physical stats buffed much of the time as a class feature. Wizards go through life with a Str=8. Plus, Wizards really should have a better dex!