Duelist question

[Elder-Basilisk]

Couldn't you use acrobatic strike as part of a spring attack too?

 

[Bastoche]

Couldn't you use acrobatic strike as part of a spring attack too?

That one is easy to settle IMO. The answer would be a clear yes. Jump in, acrobatic strike then walk out. You only get only attack though.

 

[kreynolds]

Jumping is part of movement. It's not part of a move _action_. A 5-foot step is movement, so you can jump as part of it.

Actually, it really looks like it does have to be used with a move. From the FAQ, relevant passage in orange...

The description of the Jump skill says that any distance you jump counts against your movement for the turn. What happens if my character jumps farther than her speed allows or faster than the character can move in a turn? Suppose I have a speed of 40 and I activate a magic item (a standard action), then make the required 20-foot run for a running broad jump. I can move only another 20 feet this turn. What if my Jump check indicates a jump of 25 feet or more?

When you jump farther than you’re allowed to move, you can just jump a shorter distance, or you can just finish your turn in midair and finish your jump on the next turn. There's no rule that says your jumping distance is limited by your speed. There is a rule that says any jump counts against your move for the turn. (In this case, you're using your Jump check to determine how much distance you can cover in a single jump, and then spending as much movement as necessary to complete the jump.)

If you finish a turn in midair, your next action must be a move action to finish or continue the jump. Note that you make only one check for the jump.

...which means that your action must have been a move action to begin the jump in the first place. I understand that the example in this quote is for a running jump, not a 5-foot jump, but it just seems strange that you might be able to use a 5-foot step (adjustment) with a jump. Thoughts?

 

[Bastoche]

Well in that case, the guy wants to jump as far as possible.

I think someone using the jump skill can choose to jump 5 feet (for example). If the check is higher, you still jump only 5 feet right ? If you want to jump as far as possible, you make your jump check and look how far you can jump. If it's longer than your move for the turn, you'll finish the jump on the next turn, but you can choose to jump a fixed distance (unless your skill check is too short).

 

[Bastoche]

It counts against movement but isn't necessarly a move action.

 

[kreynolds]

Well in that case, the guy wants to jump as far as possible.

True, as I pointed out. My only problem is that the "jumping with a 5-foot step (adjustment)" part. I know that you can use the Move Silently skill with a 5-foot step, but using Jump with a 5-foot step just doesn't seem right.

I think someone using the jump skill can choose to jump 5 feet (for example). If the check is higher, you still jump only 5 feet right ? If you want to jump as far as possible, you make your jump check and look how far you can jump. If it's longer than your move for the turn, you'll finish the jump on the next turn, but you can choose to jump a fixed distance (unless your skill check is too short).

Yes. As is stated in that FAQ entry that I quoted.

 

[kreynolds]

It counts against movement but isn't necessarly a move action.

That FAQ entry suggests otherwise. In fact, it clearly states that in the above example, the jump is part of a move action. The only question is whether or not you can use jump as part of a 5-foot step (adjustment).

 

[Jeph]

I think someone using the jump skill can choose to jump 5 feet (for example). If the check is higher, you still jump only 5 feet right ?

Sometimes, I make my players make a ranged touch attack against the ground for this sort of thing. I rule that Jump has a range increment of double the character's ranks. If the object they are jumping at is moving, it has an effective Dex score of (move / 10).


Example: Jo has 15 ranks in jump, the Ring of Jumping, 7 ranks in Tumble, skill focus (JUMP), the Acrobatic feat, and Str 18, for a total modifier of +55 to jump skill. His range increment while jumping is 15'. He leaps at a moving platform 35 feet away. He rolls a 7, for a total of 62, more than enough to cover the distance. He then makes a ranged touch attack (+15 base, +2 dex, -2 increments, +15 total) against AC 8 (the block is Large, has an effectiv Dex of 8 from movement). Jo rolls a 7, or a total of 22, more than enough to beat AC8, so lands on the block.

Just one schleps take on the issue,

-Jeph

 

[Bastoche]

That FAQ entry suggests otherwise. In fact, it clearly states that in the above example, the jump is part of a move action. The only question is whether or not you can use jump as part of a 5-foot step (adjustment).

I guess it's pretty gray .

 

[Bastoche]

Sometimes, I make my players make a ranged touch attack against the ground for this sort of thing. I rule that Jump has a range increment of double the character's ranks. If the object they are jumping at is moving, it has an effective Dex score of (move / 10).


Example: Jo has 15 ranks in jump, the Ring of Jumping, 7 ranks in Tumble, skill focus (JUMP), the Acrobatic feat, and Str 18, for a total modifier of +55 to jump skill. His range increment while jumping is 15'. He leaps at a moving platform 35 feet away. He rolls a 7, for a total of 62, more than enough to cover the distance. He then makes a ranged touch attack (+15 base, +2 dex, -2 increments, +15 total) against AC 8 (the block is Large, has an effectiv Dex of 8 from movement). Jo rolls a 7, or a total of 22, more than enough to beat AC8, so lands on the block.

Just one schleps take on the issue,

-Jeph

I don't see the point of making two separate rolls. A simple penality would be enough IMO.