Dungeon #99 - Is the end near?

rounser said:
I'd be happier to see a town this issue, maps and stats for a wizards' academy the next, and a guard's wayhouse on a highway the next than a minigame each issue, simply because you could just lift them straight out and plonk them straight down into your D&D game, regardless of level. I think non-D&D d20 can take care of itself...I don't really want to read academic lessons in applying d20 to new territory, simply because I don't care much about d20 and it's oh-so-bright future when we already have D&D. *shrug*

I agree completely. A fully detailed town, guild, merchant company, academy or other urban location (with adventure hooks, not necessarily an adventure) every issue would be AWESOME. These are the kinds of things DMs like to have pre-made, so they can concentrate on creating the actual adventures themselves. Why Dungeon doesn't do this is beyond me; it would DRASTICALLY increase the usefulness/longevity of every issue. Adventures are run once and discarded, but a LIVING, BREATHING LOCATION the PCs can hang out in is used over and over for years, decades even! :eek:
 
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Iron_Chef said:
I may sound bitter, but I'm really unhappy with the changes to Dragon/Dungeon lately and have given up hope that they will ever be improved to my satisfaction, where every issue will have at least **something** useful in it (but preferably at least 50% useful content).

Oh, blah. I get really annoyed that everyone gripes and complains so much about Dungeon, and no one seems to realize what happened to us Star Wars d20 players. We lost an ENTIRE MAGAZINE. Star Wars Gamer was great...now what do we have? Just a few pages in every few issues of Poly. I personally feel that there isn't any right to complain about Dungeon OR Dragon. At least you've GOT a magazine. Good or not.
 

At least you've GOT a magazine. Good or not.
True. It's all relative, innit? Paizo is bending over backwards to keep the plates spinning to an extent for everyone, when no single part of the composite Dungeon/Polyhedron/Star Wars Gamer/Living Greyhawk Journal would remain viable on it's own.
 

rounser said:

True. It's all relative, innit? Paizo is bending over backwards to keep the plates spinning to an extent for everyone, when no single part of the composite Dungeon/Polyhedron/Star Wars Gamer/Living Greyhawk Journal would remain viable on it's own.

Seems about right from what I've seen....though I never did find out why SWG died off....ah well. *shrugs* Just waiting for Dungeon/Poly #102 for more SW content now...
 

Re: Dungeon + Polyhedron = Delicious!

Andy_Collins said:
I love Dungeon.

* The adventures meet or exceed the highest quality you can find in the industry. The editors' rules expertise is extraordinary, ensuring that I'll rarely if ever be forced to rewrite a stat block or encounter because the author didn't know how the game worked.
...


i agree the editors of Dungeon are far better than say the ones at the WotC. just look at the little gnome from the Sunless Citadel if you want poor stat blocks. ;)

or the rest of the errata ad naseum being put out by WotC.:D
 

Honestly I only really started getting dungeon when they put in polyhedron, because even if I couldn't run an adventure out of the dungeon side, I could always use a mini game when not everyone shows for a game one night. I think if they pulled polyhedron out, I'd stop buying dungeon. I'm sure the adventures are good, but I've got a ton of them from every edition, or I can do them myself.

Just my .02
 

Iron_Chef said:
LGJ is nearly worthless, as Greyhawk will never receive the depth of support of FR, thus making most of it useless--I mean, who plays Greyhawk anymore, and more specifically, who likes the horrible changes made to the setting during/since 2e's Greyhawk Wars?
How about these folks?
Or the very first story hour here on the boards?
And dare I say it? My Story Hour?

To quote Inigo Montoya, "You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means." Clearly, quite a few people use Greyhawk, especially given that it's the default setting. It's also vague enough to allow lots of customization by the DM, something that is more difficult for the more detailed Realms. Consequently, adventures that utilize Greyhawk are as welcome as not, IMHO. But quite honestly, so are non-GH adventures. Most dungeon modules don't require a great deal of customization.


LGJ is only occasionally useful, when items can be easily transplanted to FR or another setting, such as the Vault of the Drow special.

And that was, ironically, my least favorite issue of LGJ, so far. You may not have found LGJ useful, but I've never found it anything but. The Silent Brotherhood, Death Knights, the vault of the draow, new monsters, custom paladins, city maps, region details, histories and lots of possibilities and story ideas. I only wish LGJ could be bigger, frankly. Heck, a large part of my campaign got a kick-off from the presentation of the Animus template.

And please get rid of the horribly unfunny, untalented comics in Dungeon. Dragon is the place for these, if they must be run at all, and Dragon has way too many awful comics in it clogging up space already, which amount to six free full page ads for Kenzer & Co. comic books.

Actually, I think you meant Dork Storm Press, there. And I love all the comics, particularly the new 'Downer', which strikes me as a Wormy for a new generation. I also love Zogonia which, to me, is always spot-on funny. I much prefered the April Fool's issues to have expanded comics, rather than truly wasteful 'joke' material. Clearly, as many folks disagree with that as the inclusion of fiction in Dragon. Some folks don't like Peanut Butter in their chocolate. :)

I may sound bitter, but I'm really unhappy with the changes to Dragon/Dungeon lately and have given up hope that they will ever be improved to my satisfaction, where every issue will have at least **something** useful in it (but preferably at least 50% useful content).

I'm sorry to hear it, but obviously disagree. I've loved everything I've seen in the most recent changes, and always been under the impression that Paizo's staff is always striving to improve. The problem, obviously, is that some of us (you and I, for example) radically disagree on the direction of the magazine, and it's obvious we can't both be served. I enjoyed issue #100, while you found it extremely lacking. It's a very difficult situation for them, as they can't please everyone. Paizo needs to figure out which audience will keep the magazine in operation and turn a profit. It's my opinion that they're trying.
 

Worldwide brotherhood of gamers

I've just come across this fascinating thread. Its really nice to see that everyone is getting constructive at last and also that the folks at Paizo are obviously reading and taking notice.

What disappointed me was the amount of personal animosity some people displayed towards Paizo and Johnny Wilson in particular. (I don't mean those who are zealously defending their Dungeon from changes they don't like by making their views known-that's fair enough. I mean those who got personal)

If we step back and think about this for a minute, these guys are part of OUR gang! One of the lads (or lasses). Part of the same crowd as ourselves, who love D&D etc. Is anyone seriously suggesting that they don't care about Dungeon? That they are just out to make a quick profit and to the Abyss with the rest of us? Of course they aren't. They are doing the best they can with a difficult situation. This may well explain why Johnny gets a bit sensitive to the criticism and reacts the way he does. FWIW I emailed Johnny (politely) some time back about why we in Britain (and Europe) were not getting our subs at all- he emailed me straight back in a polite and informative manner. Maybe Johnny made a mistake in casting himself in the role of Mark Antony in his post. Mark Antony was the master orator, manipulating his audience like a weapon. I reckon Johnny is more Brutus, honourably struggling with his conscience over the evil he feels he must do for the good of the community, but knowing and fearing that he will be villified for it. And he's not as good with the crowd as Brutus was, either, and look what happened to him:D

Erik certainly improved the mood on this thread with his post and good on him. Surely its pretty clear that Paizo are listening now and the quality of some of the suggestions is really high since that post.

From my point of view, I was one of the ones who didn't like getting Poly with my Dungeon, BUT I don't mind it if its the price of keeping the mags alive (that goes for Poly too, even though its not my cup of earl grey). I do find Poly at least slightly interesting, and as someone else said we won't really use everything in Dungeon, but we still enjoy reading it. I like the format and the colour (although I agree that these things can be a pain compared to the old style copiable format). My main concern with the current direction of Dungeon is, as many people have already said, that the Dungeon part seems to be getting squeezed by the poly part. Don't mind SOME Poly, but don't want SO MUCH Poly (unless the Dungeon bit gets bigger as well). As for advertising space, get as much as you can if we still get decent amounts of Dungeon material. If we could have the maps either as inserts or on the reverse side of an advert page that would be great too.

I have just taken out a subscription with the UK distributor for paizo (www.theplaceforgames.com if any Brits are interested) as I for one am prepared to give Johnny et al the benefit of the doubt. Just remember, if we all voted with our wallets before giving them every chance, then we wouldn't have a magazine left for them to improve.
 

Iron_Chef said:
I agree completely. A fully detailed town, guild, merchant company, academy or other urban location (with adventure hooks, not necessarily an adventure) every issue would be AWESOME....a LIVING, BREATHING LOCATION the PCs can hang out in is used over and over for years, decades even! :eek:

I think such an idea would be a nice replacement for Critical Threats or Side Treks every other issue. After all, the heart of a good adventure is memorable events, be they villains and their plots, or locations that the PC's visit.

Imagine Piratecat's Akin's Throat spelled out as a location! (Or something similar that wouldn't infringe on the intellectual Property of him or his players.) Imagine a cloud-city, complete with inhabitants, and how they exist and get from place to place? Urban does not have to mean, "boring human city."
 

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Originally posted by Iron_Chef
I agree completely. A fully detailed town, guild, merchant company, academy or other urban location (with adventure hooks, not necessarily an adventure) every issue would be AWESOME....a LIVING, BREATHING LOCATION the PCs can hang out in is used over and over for years, decades even!
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Henry said:


I think such an idea would be a nice replacement for Critical Threats or Side Treks every other issue. After all, the heart of a good adventure is memorable events, be they villains and their plots, or locations that the PC's visit.

Imagine Piratecat's Akin's Throat spelled out as a location! (Or something similar that wouldn't infringe on the intellectual Property of him or his players.) Imagine a cloud-city, complete with inhabitants, and how they exist and get from place to place? Urban does not have to mean, "boring human city."
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This is a really cool idea. Mind if I use it in Royal Griffon? More to the point, does anyone want to write such pieces for Royal Griffon?

Richard Tongue,
Transfinite Publications,
http://www.transfinitepublications.com
 

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