Dungeon #99 - Is the end near?

First off, I buy Dungeon (well, try to; 99 still hasn't shown up) for Dungeon. I read Poly, skim the minigame, and then flip it over to see what I can use in Dungeon.

I dislike the idea of subscriber only content, if only because I feel ripped off when I consider grabbing it off the newstand when it fails to arrive.

I do like the glossy maps and full page artwork, but would give them up if b&w production saved Paizo money. As to Erik's comment that it would hurt newstand sales, I ask only: what newstand sales? I'm only aware of one newstand in my entire city of 600,000 people that carries it, and they're a specialty shop - magazines are all they sell, and they get in 6 copies each of Dungeon and Dragon and usually have one left the day before the next issue hits. No bookstores carry it either. I can get it at comic and game shops, but that's a different story from newstands and convienience stores selling it. (Which some were a year and half ago).

I understand that Mr. Wilson felt that combining the magazines was the only way to save them, but I have to wonder if they couldn't survive individually if they each had more content?

The minigames (as far as I know) didn't exist before the merger; with those, support for earlier mini games, material for the entire d20 market (as the RPGA isn't supposed to be about just D&D is it?), improved LG material and perhaps the reviews that Dragon gave up on long ago, Poly could be a proper magazine instead of the pamphlet it was before the merge. Even now, it must be filling that page count increase from the new monthly format somehow.

Likewise, Dungeon could be expanded to a more widely useful product. Keep 3-5 adventures of varying setting and power levels, then add critical threats, side treks, maps of mystery (a favourite of mine), allies, town settings, single interesting buildings, odd natural locations (a magical glade or somesuch); the ideas for new sections are endless, and many have been mentioned in this very thread. The existing adventures can be beefed up with new types of sidebars as well. Right after the adapting the adventure sidebar, have a "expanding into a campaign" sidebar detailing ideas on expanding the plot of the adventure into an ongoing campaign story arc or complete campaign; include ideas on other adventures (from prior and future Dungeons, print and online adventures, both from Wizards and other d20 publishers), have notes on suggested changes for people with various non-core rulebooks, like the Fiend Folio does.

Every action that Paizo has taken with these magazines seems to have been made from a siege mentality as an attempt to delay what the publisher seems to have always felt was the inevitable cancellation of the magazines. What is needed is an effort to thrive, as the desperate attempts to merely survive aren't helping. The Hasbro axemen aren't there anymore, so Paizo should stop ducking.
 
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Believe it or not, I picked up #99 in my local supermarket while loading up for my big Labor Day weekend cookout. At a Krogers mega-chain store for crying out loud. /boggle
 

Agnostic Paladin said:
First off, I buy Dungeon (well, try to; 99 still hasn't shown up) for Dungeon. I read Poly, skim the minigame, and then flip it over to see what I can use in Dungeon.

I dislike the idea of subscriber only content, if only because I feel ripped off when I consider grabbing it off the newstand when it fails to arrive.

I do like the glossy maps and full page artwork, but would give them up if b&w production saved Paizo money. As to Erik's comment that it would hurt newstand sales, I ask only: what newstand sales? I'm only aware of one newstand in my entire city of 600,000 people that carries it, and they're a specialty shop - magazines are all they sell, and they get in 6 copies each of Dungeon and Dragon and usually have one left the day before the next issue hits. No bookstores carry it either. I can get it at comic and game shops, but that's a different story from newstands and convienience stores selling it. (Which some were a year and half ago).

I understand that Mr. Wilson felt that combining the magazines was the only way to save them, but I have to wonder if they couldn't survive individually if they each had more content? The minigames (as far as I know) didn't exist before the merger; with those, support for earlier mini games, material for the entire d20 market (as the RPGA isn't supposed to be about just D&D is it?), improved LG material and perhaps the reviews that Dragon gave up on long ago, Poly could be a proper magazine instead of the pamphlet it was before the merge. Even now, it must be filling that page count increase from the new monthly format somehow. Likewise, Dungeon could be expanded to a more widely useful product. Keep 3-5 adventures of varying setting and power levels, then add critical threats, side treks, maps of mystery (a favourite of mine), allies, town settings, single interesting buildings, odd natural locations (a magical glade or somesuch); the ideas for new sections are endless, and many have been mentioned in this very thread. The existing adventures can be beefed up with new types of sidebars as well. Right after the adapting the adventure sidebar, have a "expanding into a campaign" sidebar detailing ideas on expanding the plot of the adventure into an ongoing campaign story arc or complete campaign; include ideas on other adventures (from prior and future Dungeons, print and online adventures, both from Wizards and other d20 publishers), have notes on suggested changes for people with various non-core rulebooks, like the Fiend Folio does.

Every action that Paizo has taken with these magazines seems to have been made from a siege mentality as an attempt to delay what the publisher seems to have always felt was the inevitable cancellation of the magazines. What is needed is an effort to thrive, as the desperate attempts to merely survive aren't helping.

That's odd. I've seen Dungeon everywhere from Waldenbooks, to B&N, to Borders, and this was in two different states. Must be a local distributing problem.

As to your other points, you do realize that the cost of expanding two magazine both in layout and newstand/storage space might very well outstrip potential demand?
 

Here, in Ballarat, Australia (the nearest town/city to Waubra), there are at least five newsagents that carry the two magazines (Dragon, Dungeon). There have been periods where there hasn't been a gaming store here, or a gaming store that carries those magazines. Although the games store I frequent now has them, it's far more likely that you'll find them at the newsagent.

Though it might not be true where you live, I can assure you that Dungeon magazine is sold in newsagents around the world. Not every newsagent, no, but it is sold in some. ;)

There is information on the circulation of Dungeon magazine printed in one issue each year; the # subscribers and # newstand copies sold are there - I can't find an issue with that information in it at the moment, but you may wish to do some research to discover exactly how many newstand issues are sold relative to subscription sales.

Cheers!
 

I realize that such a plan could well exceed demand, but I still think that aggressively trying to improve the product, hopefully increasing demand (new! improved! now with 25% more cheese!) is a better mindset than desperate attempts to stave off death. The former requires changing your product to try and increase the market, and the latter requires the market to change on its own (possibly out of pity) before your product dies.

Right now, I've little interest in Poly because I gave up on Living Greyhawk after about three months and the minigames are not something I'll ever have time to mess around with. The polyhedron I described though, would be something I'd pay for a seperate subscription to. The dungeon that I described is something I'd pay considerably more for than I am now.

(I've just noticed that the second edit that I did to my previous comment last night wasn't saved... and I can't remember everything I put in the two paragraphs that I'd added to it. crud.)
 
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Thanks Johnny, Erik & Chris

Thanks to all of you for keeping Dungeon great! Without going into long, self-aggrandizing detail of my gaming background, suffice to say that I am a long time purchaser and subscriber. I think the magazine is better than ever, and here is why.

In looking at your web site, I note the mottos: 1) "Dungeon Magazine is your exclusive source for new D&D adventures"; and 2) "Polyhedron Magazine: Definitive d20". I believe many of the posters to this forum could find the answers to their questions by examining these mission statements. (Curiously, Dragon has no such motto; but I don't buy it so I really don't know what it is all about).

In my case, the mottos are true. Dungeon is my (nearly) exclusive source for D&D adventures that I actually run. When 3e first came out, I ran several adventures in a row from the pages of Dungeon. Even though I no longer read it from cover to cover because there is another DM subscriber in the group, it is the single most valuable D&D game supplement to me. When I run D&D again, it will be with advenutres largely drawn from the pages of your magazine. A long-time favorite of mine is the Side Trek. Please keep those coming.

Similarly, Polyhedron is the definition of d20 (i.e., not just D&D). All the features are great, especially the mini-games. I love getting new games in new and different genres without having to learn a whole new system. Omega World is a standout example. The inclusion of mini-games must be increasing sales. To put it in micro market terms, I got my subscription issue #94 and bought 2 more off the stands. I gave one to a friend, who bought another copy for reference also. When he restarted an old campaign using this new game, two more players bought issue #94. Another player is using his subscription copy in my game, too. So, out of the total six issues, two were subcription copies. The seeds planted in those 2 copies bore the fruit of sales of 4 more copies. Remarkable.

I may never play most of the mini-games, but this is more a function of time (individual and group) than interest. But, they are all fun to read. The one standout (like Omega World) makes it all wothwhile. Unlike adventures, which only the DM may read, the mini-games can be purchased and enjoyed by all the players. This dynamic is the same as sourcebooks appealing to more player than adventures (DMs only).

I like the Release Roundup. Similarly, I like the ads. I WANT to know what is coming out in the future and where my hobby is headed. It's the same reason I read (and now post) here.

There are two web-based innovations I would like to see. First, can you post the map downloads as Wizards of The Coast used to do? I am not sure if you can get their archived Map Dowloads and Index, but they were very useful. Second, can you make the mini-games available for dowload? This service could be done on your site or perhaps in partnership with an e-publisher such as RPGnow. As noted above, a recurring market exists for the mini-games. Any source for reprints would be valuable. (I just saw a thread somewhere in which a consumer was looking for a post-apocalyptic game. The suggestion of Omega World drew a question about where it would be available.)

Thanks for listening.
 

Re: Thanks Johnny, Erik & Chris

scourger said:


In looking at your web site, I note the mottos: 1) "Dungeon Magazine is your exclusive source for new D&D adventures

Does this mean that Kenzer will not/cannot release any more D&D Kalimar adventures. I know that WotC won't be releasing standard modules, but does this mean that we will never see any more FR adventures like spider queen or that they will not release any mega adventures for thier new champaign setting.
 

Since I know Eric and crew are reading -

I have had a subscription at my FLGS for about 5 years. I cancelled that subscription a few weeks ago. Here is why:

1. Subscriber only content (I am loyal to my FLGS)
2. Luke-warm hits or out right misses with Poly.
3. Lowered portibility into non-high magic worlds.
4. Prior to this thread - JLW's responses have been terse.

Reasons I want to keep Dungeon

1. Christopher West Maps!!!
2. Reader/Fan/Profesionally submitted material
3. I have always bought Dungeon?
 

[Edit--Sorry, misread the above post. I'm going to bed. Darn ENWorld devoured almost my entire weekend ;) ]
 
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