[Dungeon] Dungeon/Polyhedron Goes Monthly

[BryonD]

Once again, you've forgotten the most appropriate comparison:

Failed magazine: 0 pages for $0 = ??c per page.

Value per page may be undefined here, but value to your game is not. That's pretty clearly zero.

PS

I don't agree that this is appropriate at all.
If it does not meet an agreeable value, it is not there.

Whether I don't buy it because it is overpriced or because it does not exist is trivial.

It may remain a wonderful deal for those people who find value in Poly. And I am glad for you all. But to me and my brothers in SP-DLF (the Screw Poly Dungeon Liberation Front), none of this is relevant.

 

[BryonD]

Hey BryonD,

Relax man. The Dungeon/Poly argument has been going on for a while now, and some of the people involved have been hearing exactly the same arguments over and over.

When they bitch about people in general IT DOES NOT MEAN YOU!

It means everyone that's been ranting for the past year. Not all of their responses are to you. If you think they are complaining about things you didn't say...they are! Realize that this doesn't mean they're putting words in your mouth, it means they are referring to someone else.

PS

I hear you.

And I am quite relaxed.

But some of their comments have been direct responses to me.

 

[diaglo]

But would you buy an 80-page adventure for $14? Could you even find one for $14? What about a 32-page adventure? Those usually sell for about $10.

this has always been the argument for Dungeon. from its very beginning it had several adventures for a low price/ adventure.

Add the value of Polyhedron to that (and if you can't find something in Poly to add to your D&D game, you're not trying), and you have a steal.

to me Poly is worth $0.00. so the added value is not there. i buy or bought DUNGEON for its value in my D&D game. i bought Poly when it was better and had value to my RPG experience. it doesn't apply here. i don't want Poly. i don't need Poly. I think Poly is a waste of good trees.

It's fine to wish for things the way they were, but now that we actually keep track of the magazine's numbers, and it needs to make money to stay in business, the "glory days" of paying so little for so much have to remain a memory.

and it has been dark days ever since. if you think the magazine was not founded on making money. think again.

 

[Ghostwind]

From what Eric has said, essentially the only magazine that is currently not in the crosshairs of cancellation is Dragon. Now, having said that, which would you the readership prefer to have; A non-existent magazine upon which the only way to have adventures is to either buy pre-established modules for an average price of $11.00 (or cheaper if you buy pdfs or a subscription to Dire Kolbold) or craft your own, or a magazine with a varied amount of content to maximize the marketing potential of what numerous fans are looking for and tried to satisfy as many as possible?

If Dungeon and Polyhedron were to be cancelled, would it be the end of the world? No. Life goes on, deal with it. However, I do think that a solid resource would be lost to the gaming community. Despite everyone's gripe towads one direction or another, wouldn't it make sense to wait until we see the next couple of issues before denouncing the magazine and staff because it does not meet your preconceived expectations?

I am skeptical as to the quality of the magazine, but I am witholding judgment until I get a chance to read it. Personally, I don't get a lot of use out of either on a frequent basis, but it is always nice to have a resource to fall back upon in the case of a quick pick up game or if only a couple of gamers show up and you want to try something a little different without spending hours generating new characters for some new setting (ala Spycraft, Dragonstar, or d20 Modern). That is the beauty of having both Poly and Dungeon contained within a single mag. You get a strong sense of versatility.

The only unanswered question I have remains regarding subscriptions and the number of extra issues. Under the old plan, a 3 yr subscription meant you received 18 issues. Under the new plan, these 18 issues would cover an 18 month period only. If only 2 additional issues are credited regardless of existing subscription status, then I will receive 20 issues and no more. But if the intent was to grant 2 bonus issues per year of existing subscription, then I would at least enjoy the benefits of 24 issues which would be a full 2 years worth rather than the 18 months I am initially looking at. Does anyone from Paizo care to address this questions which has been asked numerous time by myself and others??

 

[Storminator]

I don't agree that this is appropriate at all.
If it does not meet an agreeable value, it is not there.

Whether I don't buy it because it is overpriced or because it does not exist is trivial.

It may remain a wonderful deal for those people who find value in Poly. And I am glad for you all. But to me and my brothers in SP-DLF (the Screw Poly Dungeon Liberation Front), none of this is relevant.

No. It is an appropriate comparison. If BJ is going to include the option of what value he USED to get, he should compare it to the value he is GOING to get if that model continues to be used.

For those that have already decided that the new magazine isn't worth buying, there is no point in bringing up the prices of other things. If I'm not buying A, the price of B in comparison is meaningless. It's only for those weighing options that comparisons mean anything. In that case, you should compare what you might actually get.

I still think there is value in Dungeon/Poly for people that like Dungeon only. It isn't as great as the value they USED to get, but that option is not available.

PS

 

[BryonD]

No, it remains inappropriate.

Your statement "if the model continues to be used" is what makes it irrelevant, because that option is not on the table.

You are trying to force the question to be "what is the best value that can be obtained and how does that compare to other alternatives?" This is not the question.

The correct question is "Is the value of the new system high enough to maintain existing consumers?"

If they wanted to know if I prefered they go out of business or go to the new model, then your point would have meaning and my answer would be different.

But they have asked if I will continue to buy with this model. I have answered that question and your input is irrelevant to my answer.

 

[Brown Jenkin]

Once again, you've forgotten the most appropriate comparison:

Failed magazine: 0 pages for $0 = ??c per page.

Value per page may be undefined here, but value to your game is not. That's pretty clearly zero.

No. It is an appropriate comparison. If BJ is going to include the option of what value he USED to get, he should compare it to the value he is GOING to get if that model continues to be used.

The comparisons were made in relation to people saying what a good deal Dungeon was and will continue to be. I broke down the prices so they could be compared. Your right that I didn't include the the cost if it went under, and maybe I should have. The question though is how much am I willing to spend to make sure it survives. As long as I feel I am getting my monies worth I will support Dungeon. Thats why I also included the price of a 100 page Dundeon for $10. I don't know what the break even point for a standalone Dungeon is but I am willing to pay this for one. Now if I don't feel I am getting my moneys worth I won't buy it and it won't matter to me anymore whether it continues to exist or not. Now each to his own and the comparisons are out there and everyone can decide for themselves where thier value point for Dungeon is.

For those that have already decided that the new magazine isn't worth buying, there is no point in bringing up the prices of other things. If I'm not buying A, the price of B in comparison is meaningless. It's only for those weighing options that comparisons mean anything. In that case, you should compare what you might actually get.

I'm not the one who brought the subject up, but it is a valid thing to consider. If I can purchase an equivalent product (in this case adventures) for a better price then why should I support the more expensive one? To me (and others may be different) Poly has no value so I am comparing what does have value to me and that is adventures. As I stated previously if you like Poly then this is a great deal.

I still think there is value in Dungeon/Poly for people that like Dungeon only. It isn't as great as the value they USED to get, but that option is not available.

PS

See above.


Since I feel the 2/3 Dungeon issues are still worth it I will continue to purchace them. Apparently I am not alone in this. It will be interesting to see what happens to thier sale figues. When they made this descion they stated that they had looked at all the economic models and this is the one that worked best. I am curious whether they expected this reaction and accounted for it. Do they expect the subscriber base to increase, decrease or remain the same, and will it meet thier expectations? Are they prepared for newsstand sales to fluctuate depending on which version it is? I will continue to purchase every other issue and hope that they did take these things into account so the magazine will continue to exist. I also wouldn't be surprised if 6 months to a year from now we hear about another change because this model is not working as they expected.

 

[Vyvyan Basterd]

The only unanswered question I have remains regarding subscriptions and the number of extra issues. Under the old plan, a 3 yr subscription meant you received 18 issues. Under the new plan, these 18 issues would cover an 18 month period only. If only 2 additional issues are credited regardless of existing subscription status, then I will receive 20 issues and no more.

Johnny Wilson has stated to me privately in response to my previous ranting that this is currently the way it will work.

But if the intent was to grant 2 bonus issues per year of existing subscription, then I would at least enjoy the benefits of 24 issues which would be a full 2 years worth rather than the 18 months I am initially looking at. Does anyone from Paizo care to address this questions which has been asked numerous time by myself and others??

Johnny also told me he had an idea how to implement this plan, but he would have to check on the viability of doing so and that he would make a public announcement here when he discovers the answer. So I guess we just need to be patient.

 

[Storminator]

All your Dungeon prices are based on the newstand price. Subscription price (for the old version according to what's on the website right now) is 47% of newstand. Longer subscriptions give even better pricing.

47% of the new newstand price is $3.28 (that's American for our foreign friends. )

If we assume the page breakdowns you had above (50 out of 67 and 20 out of 33), plus the 16 bonus pages, we get 86 pages for $6.56 = 7.6c per page.

A subscription continues to blow the doors off all other options.

In fact, a subcription beats buying the 2/3 Dungeon mags at the rack, since you pay less than half price per issue, and you get the 1/3 Dungeon and the bonus coverage as well.

So, like I said, it's still a good deal even if you don't like Poly.

All that said, I am also wondering how it will play out. These kinds of changes show a magazine of the edge of survivability. Hopefully it'll come back from the brink.

PS

 

[diaglo]

even cheaper than that for some of us.

http://boards.wizards.com/rpg/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=127;t=000341

and that was the only reason i continued my subscript.