[Dungeon] Dungeon/Polyhedron Goes Monthly

[BryonD]

Baraendur,

I do not have the slightest dispute with anything you have said. But none of it is relevant to me.

I have a small gaming group with limited gaming time. Add to that, that much of my group consists of die hard D&Ders and I have a very hard time getting to ever play anything else. I am close to getting them to let me run a session or two of D20 modern or CoC. But they are still going to want to spend the large majority of the time playing D&D. That is fine, I really enjoy D&D as well. But mini-games froma magazine? It just is not going to happen.

So quality has nothing to do with it. There really is no such thing as a great game that I don't play. If I don't have any opportunity to play it, then, to me, it will not be great. So I have no need for Poly and it brings no value to me.

Dungeon did have value to me. And that value was easily worth $6 per issue. That same value of Dungeon material is NOT worth the $14 it will now cost me. So I will not buy it anymore.

 

[diaglo]

No. Living Greyhawk Journal was added to Dragon because people liked it and it was a good way of keeping the readers of the world's most popular gaming magazine updated on the world's most popular organized play RPG campaign.

No one in their right mind ever thought that the Journal was going to be profitable. It was born in an era in which the RPGA was not expected to be profitable and was meant to be a benefit to RPGA members who wanted more information on the Network's premiere campaign.

Now, since LG is pretty much 98% of what the RPGA does as an entity, we're moving it into the RPGA magazine, where a lot of people have argued that it belongs, anyway.

--Erik

Hmmmm. i wonder who is tooting their own horn

 

[diaglo]

Re: I feel screwed

It looks like JW took my money and ran with it.

oh well.

i guess i miss worded my intent. i'm sorry for that.

i didn't mean to imply you were stealing my money.

i just felt like you have backtracked on the promise to the purists.

i am a purist.

i do not praise Poly.

i used to. way, way, way back when. but to me it hasn't improved. but then again neither has Dungeon.

i did not want it added to Dungeon. it is a waste of good trees.

i would've paid more for a stand alone Dungeon, if i knew the quality of Dungeon would have improved.

 

[Myrddyn]

I would really like to give my opinion on these changes to what should also be my subscribtion... but as an European subscriber to both Dungeon and Dragon, I don't even get my (paid-for) magazines anymore... So I really won't bother anymore.

Guess I'm to blame for considering Dragon & Dungeon good magazines worthy of a subscribtion...

A disgruntled ex-Dungeon/Dragon subscriber.

 

[Vyvyan Basterd]

Too many posters to quote...

1) Colonel Hardisson: There is NO reduction in content.

Yes there is. Currently Dungeon/Poly is 160 pages per issue. Starting in May it will be 100 pages. That is a 37.5% reduction in content per issue. Oh, but they're lowering the price you say? Yeah, by 12.5%.

Until Mr. Wilson clarifies, I am now not to receive 21 160-page issues from May 2003 to October 2006 (or 3,360 pages) as agreed at time of subscription. I am now to receive 12 125-page issues (the 125% with subscriber bonus material through second-hand info from Johnny) and 11 100-page issues from May 2003 to March 2005 (or 2,600 pages). I paid for 3,360 pages of content at GenCon 2002 with an assurance from Erik that Dungeon would not be altered. They are reducing my TOTAL content received by 23%.

THEN if you look JUST at Dungeon content, I lose even more.

Tell me again I am NOT losing content.

2) Storminator: Maybe you'd rather see BOTH mags fail.

Maybe they will when all of us mislead, disgruntled subscribers ask for refunds (which in a private email from the publisher I am told is as easy as sending them your mailing information and they will speed your refund check to you, fyi). Broken promises to subscribers and sugar-coating a 40% price increase will hurt the magazines more than anything. And, by principle, I would rather see a magazine fail on its own rather than forcing me to buy Poly and Ranger REG to buy "Dung" (even if he and I don't see eye-to-eye over the issue).

Default Name Player: "You failed to take subcription cost into account..."

I HAVE a current subscription that was to run through Oct 2006. I am feeling cheated by the loss of overall content I will receive for the money I spent and even more cheated over the loss of Dungeon content. What I agreed to purchase is not what I will receive according to Mr. Wilson's one and only post here. Even in his private email he failed to answer my question of exactly how many issues I will receive.

 

[Thomasson]

Can anyone support this? (Pazio? Anyone?)

I recall when Poly and LGJ were their own zines the discussion was adding them into Dungeon and Dragon as a means of keeping them afloat. I never heard anybody say that Dungeon was hurting at the time.

As a matter of fact, that is the only point in the whole deal that I feel ever so slightly screwed over. When the combination was pitched, it was promated as a great new, free bonus for people who liked Dungeon. But it did not take long at all for WoTC to decide that someone else should have to worry about keeping that promise. And that someone else promptly decided to blow it off.

Anyway, Dungeon plugged along through the darker days of late 2e. I have seen nothing to indicate that is was about to crash and burn in the much brighter days of post 3e.

I am not claiming that Poly will drag down Dungeon. But, unless the info I have read is way wrong AND there is a lot of data out there that I have missed going the other way, Dungeon in no way needs Poly.

I've made this post roughly six times on various boards, and I've made the comment twice, I think (I might be misremembering) in our "Letters" column. But here it is again.

Erik, in an earlier post, is dead on. Dungeon was almost killed at the same time Polyhedron was put in line for the guillotine. So now you have it, again, from the Dungeon editor and the Polyhedron editor.

I'd also like to respond to the "We're ripping the Dungeon readers off" stuff other folks have been posting.

Here's the page breakdown we shoot for in the magazine: 100 pages of Dungeon, 64 pages of Polyhedron. Sometimes I have too much content and we add an extra 16 pages, but we don't like to do that because it costs more, we know we're already packing the issue full of value, and increasing the costs of the magazine generally means it's less healthy. I guess we should have made a bigger deal over adding the extra 16 pages, but we didn't think it was that big a deal. Whoops!

Anyway, in the new format, instead of 100 pages of Dungeon content (again, this has been our goal all along) over a two-month period, you instead get (surprise!) 100 pages of Dungeon content over a two-month period. If you're a subscriber, you get 116 pages of content over a two-month period. In addition, instead of getting 64 pages of Polyhedron content over a two-month period, you instead get 100 pages over a two-month period.

All told, that's an increase of 36 pages over two months, 52 pages if you're a subscriber.

I hope this clears up some of the confusion. I'm not even getting into our ad counts and how much more edit we include in an issue than your "typical" football magazine, nor the odd comparison between football and golf (two distinctly different sports that don't apply to one another, although football-golf would be a sporting event I'd pay to see), and Dungeon, a D&D magazine, and Polyhedron, a d20 magazine. We know that the vast majority of our readers have figured out that Polyhedron content can virtually all be imported into a D&D campaign.

 

[Thomasson]

Baraendur,

I do not have the slightest dispute with anything you have said. But none of it is relevant to me.

I have a small gaming group with limited gaming time. Add to that, that much of my group consists of die hard D&Ders and I have a very hard time getting to ever play anything else. I am close to getting them to let me run a session or two of D20 modern or CoC. But they are still going to want to spend the large majority of the time playing D&D. That is fine, I really enjoy D&D as well. But mini-games froma magazine? It just is not going to happen.

So quality has nothing to do with it. There really is no such thing as a great game that I don't play. If I don't have any opportunity to play it, then, to me, it will not be great. So I have no need for Poly and it brings no value to me.

Dungeon did have value to me. And that value was easily worth $6 per issue. That same value of Dungeon material is NOT worth the $14 it will now cost me. So I will not buy it anymore.

But would you buy an 80-page adventure for $14? Could you even find one for $14? What about a 32-page adventure? Those usually sell for about $10. We'll have one of roughly that length or longer in every other issue, and with a full-color interior, where most, if not all, modules on the d20 rack are all black and white. With the extra 48 pages of adventures and adventure content you get for the extra $4, it sure sounds like you're still getting a good deal, even if you don't like Polyhedron. Back when we charged $6 for Dungeon, to be honest, you were getting too good a deal. That's one big reason why the magazine was so unhealthy.

Add the value of Polyhedron to that (and if you can't find something in Poly to add to your D&D game, you're not trying), and you have a steal.

It's fine to wish for things the way they were, but now that we actually keep track of the magazine's numbers, and it needs to make money to stay in business, the "glory days" of paying so little for so much have to remain a memory.

 

[robert84]

Not to get involved at all...
The very fact that Dungeon/Poly/Dragon continue to exist is through the grace of some very hardworking and game conscious people. While many of the decisions made throughout the life of the magazines have not always been in accordance with the wants/yens/desires of its readership, I, for one, appreciate their dedication to putting out a quality product that is indeed industry friendly. I remember how pissed I was when TSR died and I received no magazine for several months. And though HasbOTC is singlehandedly cutting the throat of this venerable and beloved game, Paizo, at a substantial cost I'm sure, did not miss a beat (excepting the European community) in its publication. In fact, I'm now getting my magazines faster and earlier than before. If nothing else, these magazines provide inspiration for player's and DMs alike. That is what they have always done, and what I believe will always do. In the end, however, many will vote with their wallets. I just hope that we, as fans and enthusiasts, take a deep breath and wait and see what happens. Thanks guys for your efforts.
-R

 

[coyote6]

I'm all about the waiting-to-see. I like Dungeon; I haven't used much of the Polyhedron stuff as yet, but I enjoy reading it.

The only thing I'm impatient to know is: when will my subscription run out?

 

[robert84]

I concur

Yeah, I just renewed for a year ('cause I'm a schmuck who buys too much d20 crap and can't afford more than one year at a time). I wonder if this means I've got 6 months or what.
?