[Dungeon] Dungeon/Polyhedron Goes Monthly

[cildarith]

This is ridiculous. The inclusion of that lame-a$$ Poly-whatever crap at the back of Dungeon was bad enough. This is the last straw.

Johnny, you lost another customer.



Sorry, I just had to get that off my chest. Dungeon used to be my favorite mag.

 

[Ghostwind]

2 issues per year extension?

Just before Christmas, I received an offer to extend my subscription for 3 years at the low rate of $49.95 (which means I am good for 2006). Given the latest announcement, I am wondering if it will now be worth it.

I will wait and see what the quality looks like with the new format. If the quality has dropped or if I see I can no longer get a good deal of use from the magazine, Paizo will see my subscription stopped and I will expected to be refunded the difference.

Johnny did mention that existing subscriptions would be extended by 2 issues. Can anyone clarify if this equates 2 issues per year of your existing subscription? If this is the case, it is more reasonable to me. But if all we are getting is 2 issues period regardless of the length of term of our subscription, then I feel like I've been taken advantage of since decisions of the magnitude of this announcement were clearly being made months ago (when they were solicting a new low price one shot subscription deal).

Certainly, there have been a lot of good questions in need of answers and it would be nice if Johnny came back and addressed him rather than leaving his customers hanging...

 

[ColonelHardisson]

Re: Re: [Dungeon] Dungeon/Polyhedron Goes Monthly

Then where do I request my refund, Mr. Wilson?

Some simple math for those who think I'm just ranting. I extended my subcription at GenCon 2002 with an informal promise from Erik Mona that Dungeon would not be altered.

If the magazine continued as a bi-monthly publication, I would receive 23 issues from May 2003 to Oct 2006. The most recent issue had a Dungeon page-count of 116 pages.

21 x 116 = 2,436 pages of Dungeon content purchased.

Now, the new 100-page monthly comes along and I receive 23 issues. Lets say 12 of these issues are the 2/3rds issues (2/3 x 100 = 67) plus an extra adventure. Lets be optimistic and say the extra adventure is an average of ten pages. That's 77 pages for 13 issues.

12 x 77 = 924 pages

Plus, the other eleven issues have only 1/3rd of 100 pages (33 pages).

11 x 33 = 363 pages + 924 pages = 1,287 pages

1,287 divided by 2,436 = 53% of my original value.

Tell me how that's a deal.

P.S. In fact, even if my subscription went completely through the end date under the new plan I would still be shorted content. Only if my subscription extends two issues beyond Oct 2006 would I be getting my value. Please explain that this is the case to all of us and then it will be a good value.

Kelly Johnson

This is misleading. The "content" will still be there, it will just be content that you, specifically, don't like. That's an important distinction that is not made clear in this post, and could confuse others who read it. I can understand not wanting stuff you don't like, but you could make it clearer from your post what you are breaking down. The magazine will not, as a whole, be 53% the length that it was.

 

[BryonD]

Re: Re: Re: [Dungeon] Dungeon/Polyhedron Goes Monthly

This is misleading. The "content" will still be there, it will just be content that you, specifically, don't like. That's an important distinction that is not made clear in this post, and could confuse others who read it. I can understand not wanting stuff you don't like, but you could make it clearer from your post what you are breaking down. The magazine will not, as a whole, be 53% the length that it was.

I disagree. If I subscribe to a Football magazine and then later get that subscription changed to a product that will give me 53% as much Football content but will also give me 53% golf content, I will only be getting 53% of the content. There may be some people who are also interested in golf and are now getting 106%, but that does nothing for me.

It is a reduction in the content that was purchased.

 

[Vyvyan Basterd]

Re: Re: Re: [Dungeon] Dungeon/Polyhedron Goes Monthly

This is misleading. The "content" will still be there, it will just be content that you, specifically, don't like. That's an important distinction that is not made clear in this post, and could confuse others who read it. I can understand not wanting stuff you don't like, but you could make it clearer from your post what you are breaking down. The magazine will not, as a whole, be 53% the length that it was.

It is not misleading. The 116-page-count was for Dungeon only. There is an additional 44 pages of Poly (I think) for a total page count of 160. So now lets see...

21 issues under current plan x 160 pages = 3,360 pages
23 issues under new plan x 100 pages = 2,300 pages

21 issues under current plan x 116 pages of Dungeon content = 2,436 pages
23 issues under new plan x 62.5 pages (average)* of Dungeon content = 1,437 pages

21 issues under current plan x 44 pages of Poly content= 924 pages
23 issues under new plan x 50 pages = 1,150 pages

So if you like Poly only you get a great deal.

If you like Dungeon at all, even if you like Poly too, then you get screwed. And that is just straight fact. And if you buy yours at the newstand you get screwed even more. Paizo's deceptive business practice is to sell this as a great deal and a price reduction when truly they are almost doubling the cost of the magazine right under our noses.

*Based on the post above stating that "Johnny" claims 125% Dungeon content per two issues if you subscribe

 

[Default Name Player]

Vyvyan - Despite all of your math, wasn't all of this already covered in the initial posting?

I decided that my initial plan would have been very attractive to purists who either refused to look at Polyhedron because they only played D&D or refused to look at Dungeon because they liked playing a variety of game systems. However, my initial plan would have done nothing for the increasing percentage of readers who liked both sides of the magazine and enjoyed the fresh ideas found under both titles. Since my initial plan was neither cost-effective nor likely to please the largest majority of the readers, I scrapped it in favor of the plan we’ve adopted.

Not exactly "under your nose" or "deceptive" since they stated this UP FRONT.

In addition, your math fails to take into account TIMEFRAME. The original plan might encompass 3 years, but the new plan probably encompasses around 1-1/2 years.

Furthmore, you also failed to take into account a subscription price comparison, if you want to measure value through dollar value.

If want a TRUE comparison, take into account the Poly content, Dungeon content, subsription costs AND timeframe. The Colonel is correct in that you are indeed being misleading because you've failed to take into account other factors that may be involved.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

Re: Re: Re: Re: [Dungeon] Dungeon/Polyhedron Goes Monthly

I disagree. If I subscribe to a Football magazine and then later get that subscription changed to a product that will give me 53% as much Football content but will also give me 53% golf content, I will only be getting 53% of the content. There may be some people who are also interested in golf and are now getting 106%, but that does nothing for me.

It is a reduction in the content that was purchased.

I don't see how you can disagree. I'm saying, simply enough, that the post I quoted could be taken to mean that the magazine is going to be physically smaller to a substantial degree. It will not be. It will, apparently, have less of the content that the poster likes, but it will not be half as big, physically, than it was before. That part needed to be made more clear, because if publishers ar going to have their feet to the fire for something, the critics should have the responsibility to be as clear in their criticism as possible if they want to be taken seriously. The poster made a good, substantial point, but I think that particular element wasn't elucidated enough.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

Re: Re: Re: Re: [Dungeon] Dungeon/Polyhedron Goes Monthly

It is not misleading. The 116-page-count was for Dungeon only. There is an additional 44 pages of Poly (I think) for a total page count of 160. So now lets see...

21 issues under current plan x 160 pages = 3,360 pages
23 issues under new plan x 100 pages = 2,300 pages

21 issues under current plan x 116 pages of Dungeon content = 2,436 pages
23 issues under new plan x 62.5 pages (average)* of Dungeon content = 1,437 pages

21 issues under current plan x 44 pages of Poly content= 924 pages
23 issues under new plan x 50 pages = 1,150 pages

So if you like Poly only you get a great deal.

If you like Dungeon at all, even if you like Poly too, then you get screwed. And that is just straight fact. And if you buy yours at the newstand you get screwed even more. Paizo's deceptive business practice is to sell this as a great deal and a price reduction when truly they are almost doubling the cost of the magazine right under our noses.

*Based on the post above stating that "Johnny" claims 125% Dungeon content per two issues if you subscribe

I'm not going to argue any of this. That's not the point I was making. Again, the magazine will not be physically smaller to any great degree. Your original post could be taken to mean that it will be. You may rationalize that it will be because the content you like may have fewer pages devoted to it, but I think your criticism - which is, essentially, valid - would be better served by being completely clear about such points.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

By the way, my opinion is that this is an interesting experiment for Dungeon/Poly, and I look forward to it. I'll give it a few issues to see how it works out.

 

[Storminator]

Re: Re: Re: Re: [Dungeon] Dungeon/Polyhedron Goes Monthly

It is not misleading. The 116-page-count was for Dungeon only. There is an additional 44 pages of Poly (I think) for a total page count of 160. So now lets see...

21 issues under current plan x 160 pages = 3,360 pages
23 issues under new plan x 100 pages = 2,300 pages

21 issues under current plan x 116 pages of Dungeon content = 2,436 pages
23 issues under new plan x 62.5 pages (average)* of Dungeon content = 1,437 pages

21 issues under current plan x 44 pages of Poly content= 924 pages
23 issues under new plan x 50 pages = 1,150 pages

So if you like Poly only you get a great deal.

If you like Dungeon at all, even if you like Poly too, then you get screwed. And that is just straight fact. And if you buy yours at the newstand you get screwed even more. Paizo's deceptive business practice is to sell this as a great deal and a price reduction when truly they are almost doubling the cost of the magazine right under our noses.

*Based on the post above stating that "Johnny" claims 125% Dungeon content per two issues if you subscribe

Perhaps you aren't comparing the correct options. Maybe your choices aren't between the new format and the old, but between the new format and both magazines failing, eating your subscription dollars in the process. If that's the case, you'll end up with a lot more under the new format.

PS