Dungeon Mag #101 - slight ranty.
- Thread starter KenM
- Start date
Ycore Rixle
First Post
First of all, Paizo really does listen to their customers. Unfortunately, not all customers want the same thing from Dungeon/Poly.
Personally, I enjoy both Dungeon and Poly. My ideal would be to have more Dungeon and less Poly, and for Dungeon to include more short- or mid-length adventures rather than mega-length adventures and plotless critical threats.
I still think Dungeon is a fantastic buy. To me, it is the most consistently useful product, bar none, in the gaming world. I know that I can bring the latest Dungeon to the gaming table, open it up, and actually use it in my weekly game. I suppose I should add a disclaimer that I've published in the magazine, but this was my opinion before I published as well.
Personally, I enjoy both Dungeon and Poly. My ideal would be to have more Dungeon and less Poly, and for Dungeon to include more short- or mid-length adventures rather than mega-length adventures and plotless critical threats.
I still think Dungeon is a fantastic buy. To me, it is the most consistently useful product, bar none, in the gaming world. I know that I can bring the latest Dungeon to the gaming table, open it up, and actually use it in my weekly game. I suppose I should add a disclaimer that I've published in the magazine, but this was my opinion before I published as well.
Geoff Watson
First Post
Re: Re: Dungeon Mag #101 - slight ranty.
Only if you're in the US.
I'm not willing to pay a lot more and get the magazines several months late, which is what happened when I subscribed to dragon.
Geoff.
BiggusGeekus said:
Only if you're in the US.
I'm not willing to pay a lot more and get the magazines several months late, which is what happened when I subscribed to dragon.
Geoff.
drnuncheon
Explorer
I know how you feel, Ken. I looked at #101 and put it back on the shelf. The Poly games are interesting and fun to read, but I've never actually run one, so for me the bulk of the value comes in Dungeon. Since the change to the monthly format, the issues seem a lot skimpier to me, and it's harder to justify shelling out the 7 bucks for, essentially, one adventure. #100 was a nice exception - I enjoyed it greatly - but then again, it seemed like a return to the size and quality of the bimonthly magazine.
I know there were business reasons for them doing everything they did, but I'm not going to feel guilty about not buying the magazine if it's not giving me what I want. If someone started putting out a $5, B&W, 64-page adventure magazine, perhaps to complement a certain other magazine with a similar format...well, I'd buy it. I'd personally rather have more adventure than more color. It'd be interesting to see how many disaffected Dungeon fans would pick it up, too.
As an aside, does anyone know if Dungeon back issues ordered through Paizo are 'subscriber' issues or 'newsstand' issues?
I know there were business reasons for them doing everything they did, but I'm not going to feel guilty about not buying the magazine if it's not giving me what I want. If someone started putting out a $5, B&W, 64-page adventure magazine, perhaps to complement a certain other magazine with a similar format...well, I'd buy it. I'd personally rather have more adventure than more color. It'd be interesting to see how many disaffected Dungeon fans would pick it up, too.
As an aside, does anyone know if Dungeon back issues ordered through Paizo are 'subscriber' issues or 'newsstand' issues?
Ravellion
serves Gnome Master
All I know that subscribing to get 6 decent issues and 6 semi decent issues is not an attractive option in comparison to simply buying the even numbered issues at the FLGS, especially at overseas prices (though the dirt low dollar might make it somewhat attractive right now).
I honestly can't see why the average Dungeon reader is going to pay 5 GBP for one adventure. For five pounds I can buy an adventure without ads and more than 20 pages too. The argument "Dungeon is still better value for money" ceases to be true for the odd numbered issues. (edit: at least not without going for "pot luck" and subscribing)
I also wonder how much more money it costs to print two versions of the same magazine.
With only one average sized adventure in Dungeon magazine, it ceases to be the Dragon Magazine I bought without question. I now read it first in the store, and I might even end up skipping a few even numbered issues. The odd numbered ones have to be incredible before I would buy on of them.
I honestly can't see why the average Dungeon reader is going to pay 5 GBP for one adventure. For five pounds I can buy an adventure without ads and more than 20 pages too. The argument "Dungeon is still better value for money" ceases to be true for the odd numbered issues. (edit: at least not without going for "pot luck" and subscribing)
I also wonder how much more money it costs to print two versions of the same magazine.
With only one average sized adventure in Dungeon magazine, it ceases to be the Dragon Magazine I bought without question. I now read it first in the store, and I might even end up skipping a few even numbered issues. The odd numbered ones have to be incredible before I would buy on of them.
Last edited:
Tewligan
First Post
I've been trying to decide whether or not to subscribe for the past several issues. I've been picking it up regularly at the FLGS, and I certainly wouldn't mind (a)paying less and (b)getting the subscriber-only content. On the other hand, I (c)don't have a lot of use for Poly and (d)have serious doubts about Dungeon having any more than a year left before they finally pull the plug on it.Silver Moon said:
Brown Jenkin
First Post
Please forgive my lack of journalistic skills, which is why I have held back so long relaying these “scoops”
I was one of a half dozen people who attended “Paizo at the Mike” at Origins. There was much discussion of their new magazine Undefeated (which will cover non-D&D/d20 games) as well as a long discussion on their view of 3.5 (They like it and have been playing it for 6 months and feel that the changes are minor enough that we should not notice a major difference). Dragon and Star Wars insider were only briefly discussed. We did end up discussing Dungeon as well so here is what they had to say on some issues. If they wish to post to correct that is fine. To confirm that I was there they were upstaged a few times by a small feathered friend.
Effective 1 week prior to Origins: Chris Thomasson moved to editor of Dragon and Erik Mona became editor of both Dungeon and Polyhedron.
Erik and Johnny talked about (to only slightly paraphrase) the very loud squeaky wheel that is the balance between Dungeon content and Poly content. While the numbers of complainers may not be overwhelming they have been very loud and vocal for long enough that they are taking the issue seriously. One of Erik’s first jobs as joint editor will be looking into whether a better balance between the two contents is possible. [A point to consider that they did not mention is that this may not be evident for a few issues since there is a lead time to take into account]
They are planning on getting rid of the flip format since its novelty and usefulness are past and it is easier to publish without the flip. The Poly section will be right side up at the back of Dungeon with its own interior cover. They reassured us that it will be a real cover that will be easy to distinguish as such.
Erik believes that while the mini-games are enjoyed and useful it might be time to reduce them to 4 a year instead of 6 so that they can focus more on all the other things (Living Greyhawk, Star Wars, and mini-game and crossover support content. He also understands that Dungeon readers find more use from things that they can tie into D&D more directly. He expects that at least one mini-game a year will be closer to D&D like the Spelljammer game.
For those who complained that they have to pay for the Githyanki City Guide web supplement when it was promised for free, they explained that there is both a free supplement and that the city guide is almost another adventure worth of material that they can’t reasonably give away for free.
For those who are upset at not getting all the adventures if they buy it from the newsstand (the subscriber bonuses) They stated that they are doing this as a perk for those who subscribe to help compensate for their raising of the prices and they have done similar things like giving bonus issues to subscribers when they raised the price before. They seemed to have no problem with giving favoritism to the subscribers but are planning to eventually give newsstand purchasers the chance to purchase the extra adventures separately online as they are doing with the city guide download.
When asked whether Call of Cthulhu material will be covered in Poly Erik replied that he really enjoys CoC personally, it is yet to be determined whether there will be any room in Poly for it since Star Wars really needs more space than it is getting.
Many people seemed to enjoy the crossovers although we should only expect about one a year unless something really interesting comes up.
Both Dragon and Dungeon will be 3.5 compliant from now on even if 3.5 does not do well and people continue playing 3.0 instead. As stated above they do not believe that there will be much of a difference and that if anyone wants to use 3.0 it should be easy to convert back. To repeat as they did several times, most material will be usable with either and converting to 3.0 should be easy since the rules are almost the same.
Apparently Johnny broke his own rule about posting without thinking about it for a day when he posted his comment about discussing the situation at GenCon if magazines were still around then. He left for vacation the following morning after posting that from home the previous night. Apparently the staff of Paizo did not know that he was just lashing out and they spent the next week wondering if the situation was worse than they thought and forcing the staff to play damage control both here at Enworld and elsewhere. They repeatedly claimed at the seminar that the situation was good and getting better.
That is all I remember at the moment.
I was one of a half dozen people who attended “Paizo at the Mike” at Origins. There was much discussion of their new magazine Undefeated (which will cover non-D&D/d20 games) as well as a long discussion on their view of 3.5 (They like it and have been playing it for 6 months and feel that the changes are minor enough that we should not notice a major difference). Dragon and Star Wars insider were only briefly discussed. We did end up discussing Dungeon as well so here is what they had to say on some issues. If they wish to post to correct that is fine. To confirm that I was there they were upstaged a few times by a small feathered friend.
Effective 1 week prior to Origins: Chris Thomasson moved to editor of Dragon and Erik Mona became editor of both Dungeon and Polyhedron.
Erik and Johnny talked about (to only slightly paraphrase) the very loud squeaky wheel that is the balance between Dungeon content and Poly content. While the numbers of complainers may not be overwhelming they have been very loud and vocal for long enough that they are taking the issue seriously. One of Erik’s first jobs as joint editor will be looking into whether a better balance between the two contents is possible. [A point to consider that they did not mention is that this may not be evident for a few issues since there is a lead time to take into account]
They are planning on getting rid of the flip format since its novelty and usefulness are past and it is easier to publish without the flip. The Poly section will be right side up at the back of Dungeon with its own interior cover. They reassured us that it will be a real cover that will be easy to distinguish as such.
Erik believes that while the mini-games are enjoyed and useful it might be time to reduce them to 4 a year instead of 6 so that they can focus more on all the other things (Living Greyhawk, Star Wars, and mini-game and crossover support content. He also understands that Dungeon readers find more use from things that they can tie into D&D more directly. He expects that at least one mini-game a year will be closer to D&D like the Spelljammer game.
For those who complained that they have to pay for the Githyanki City Guide web supplement when it was promised for free, they explained that there is both a free supplement and that the city guide is almost another adventure worth of material that they can’t reasonably give away for free.
For those who are upset at not getting all the adventures if they buy it from the newsstand (the subscriber bonuses) They stated that they are doing this as a perk for those who subscribe to help compensate for their raising of the prices and they have done similar things like giving bonus issues to subscribers when they raised the price before. They seemed to have no problem with giving favoritism to the subscribers but are planning to eventually give newsstand purchasers the chance to purchase the extra adventures separately online as they are doing with the city guide download.
When asked whether Call of Cthulhu material will be covered in Poly Erik replied that he really enjoys CoC personally, it is yet to be determined whether there will be any room in Poly for it since Star Wars really needs more space than it is getting.
Many people seemed to enjoy the crossovers although we should only expect about one a year unless something really interesting comes up.
Both Dragon and Dungeon will be 3.5 compliant from now on even if 3.5 does not do well and people continue playing 3.0 instead. As stated above they do not believe that there will be much of a difference and that if anyone wants to use 3.0 it should be easy to convert back. To repeat as they did several times, most material will be usable with either and converting to 3.0 should be easy since the rules are almost the same.
Apparently Johnny broke his own rule about posting without thinking about it for a day when he posted his comment about discussing the situation at GenCon if magazines were still around then. He left for vacation the following morning after posting that from home the previous night. Apparently the staff of Paizo did not know that he was just lashing out and they spent the next week wondering if the situation was worse than they thought and forcing the staff to play damage control both here at Enworld and elsewhere. They repeatedly claimed at the seminar that the situation was good and getting better.
That is all I remember at the moment.
Brown Jenkin
First Post
Ravellion said:
This issue also came up in the talk about the balance between Dungeon and Poly as one of the reasons to look into the issue. They did not want people thinking about making the purchase from a newstand to have to think is this a Dungeon issue or a Poly issue.
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