Dungeon Magazine Pricing Issue (long, sorry)

[Sigma]

I've definitely grown to appreciate Polyhedron, though I can't say that I'd be too dissapointed if it were separated out from Dungeon. However...

/Rant!/

A 60 page mini-game based on Josie and the Pussycats next month? Dear god I hope that's some sort of twisted April's Fools joke that I just missed. Maybe it's just me, but I can't even stand watching those old Hanna Barbara cartoons. When was the last time you were sitting around before the game talking with your group when someone said

"gee, I'd sure like to play a talking, walking, some-what comedic shark in our next game?"
"That's funny, I've always thought it'd be great to play a really hair barbarian with a magic club that screams a lot."
"That is so lame. What would be sweet is if we had the bionic three stooges in our group. That would be l33t."

/Rant!/

But hey, maybe I'm just out of touch with the enormous hanna-barbara fan base out there screaming for this sort of content.

 

[Joseph Elric Smith]

But hey, maybe I'm just out of touch with the enormous hanna-barbara fan base out there screaming for this sort of content.

For a lot of us it is nostalgia, for our youth
ken

 

[Brown Jenkin]

I would have been willing to pay 50% more to have my old Dungeon survive instead I am forced to pay 100% more for content I don't want. At that price I am paying about the same price per page of adventure that I can get with dedicated modules. I did the price break down in a previous Dungeon thread. I made the determination that it was not worth my money anymore and stopped buying it.

I remember when Poly was first added to Dungeon and we were told. Don't worry Poly will be a free addition added to the 100+ pages of Dungeon. After 1 year we were then told that Dungeon was going monthly and it would be wonderful and we would have the same amount of content but that now it would be monthly and cost less. Yes it does cost less but now we get only 1/2 what we were getting before for about the same same price effectively doubling the cost of Dungeon. So what has realy happened here is that despite claimes that Poly was a free addition what they were realy doing is preparing to force the subscribers of each magazine to subscribe to the other as well. If you look at the page count we still have the same amout of content as before on a bi-monthly basis but we are now forced to pay for Poly.

We have been informed that Dungeon and Poly had about equal subscribers with a 50% overlap. So rather than raising the price for Dungeon to cover the costs it was deamed easier to force the 50% of Dungeon subscribers that didn't get Poly to pay for a subscription to it and vice versa so that the net subscription rates of each magazine went up 50% thereby boosting add rates and allowing the magazine to be profitable.

Personally I find the way they went about it underhanded and in bad faith. As I said I would have been willing to pay more for Dungeon to survive if they had been honest about it and let us know how bad of shape they were in and what price they would need to charge to be proffitable. If it truely is double what we were paying before I would be shocked since non-advertising based adventures are released for that price per page.

I hope they don't fold and that thier choice works out for them and the majority of thier customers, but I am no longer a happy customer and as they have always said if you don't like what were doing you don't have to purchase our product.

 

[Sigma]

For a lot of us it is nostalgia, for our youth
ken

I can buy nostalgia as being a motivating factor, but it needs to be put in context. A Buck Rogers mini-game would have been nostalgia-inducing and game related. But cartoons that never had gaming analogs aren't really appropriate. Even the Days of Our Lives rpg would be more relevant (I believe TSR put out some such thing in the early 80's).

Out of curiosity, are you sincerely interested in this mini-game, or just playing devil's advocate. I would be interested in knowing if there was anyone out there who thinks such a game is worth spending money on.

Hmmm...come to think of it though, there were people who liked the racing mini-game in Polyhedron. I guess there's no accounting for taste

 

[Thomasson]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Dungeon Magazine Pricing Issue (long, sorry)

I'm finding it hard to justify the cost increase. Maybe you can convince me otherwise with some examples of items that you can compare Dungeon with. Please and I mean this in a nice way, not as a challenge or to start a fight, show/tell/convince me that Dungeon/Poly is worth the cost. I like the magazine, just the price is out weighing its value for me. I would appreciate it. Thanks.

Gallo22

The cost of issue #98: $7. Just in Dungeon, you get "Flood Season," a 32+ page full-color adventure, and two short full color adventures totaling 9+ more pages. All told, it's about 45 pages of adventure content.

A high-quality 32-page adventure with black and white interiors from Wizards of the Coast (and most other publishers): $10.

I'm not even getting into the 30+ pages of Polyhedron content, since many of you have said you can't (won't?) find a use for it.

Are we happy with the price increase? No. But were we undercharging for the magazine before? I'd say yes. I think Dungeon alone is worth the price. Heck, I get more use out of the maps, not to mention the stat blocks, in Dungeon than almost any other non-core RPG book I've purchased.

 

[kaiscomet]

I have been a sporadic buyer/subscription holder of Dungeon, and tend to rate some issues higher than others based upon how good the adventures were, and my likelihood of using them. Overall, the maps and artwork has been pretty good , but it has always been the quality of the adventures that has sold the issue for me.

There are some new companies out that are supposedly going to be offering a subscription to either a weekly adventure scalable to your wants, or a monthly pdf e-zine. In either case, I would presume that these would get you more 'bang for your buck' although whether or not either of these will actually fly and the quality remains to be seen.

That being said, what would the interest be for something like this? They would only be as good as those that contribute, and if there is a low interest in contributing then the adventures would not likely be too good. Still, if Dungeon/Poly is only putting out an average of 6 or so adventures every two months, at $7 an issue, that's getting pretty spendy. If there was an option where I could download a scalable adventure in PDF form for a couple of bucks, I would much rather go that route.

 

[tassander]

The cost of issue #98: $7. Just in Dungeon, you get "Flood Season," a 32+ page full-color adventure, and two short full color adventures totaling 9+ more pages. All told, it's about 45 pages of adventure content.

A high-quality 32-page adventure with black and white interiors from Wizards of the Coast (and most other publishers): $10.

I'm not even getting into the 30+ pages of Polyhedron content, since many of you have said you can't (won't?) find a use for it.

Are we happy with the price increase? No. But were we undercharging for the magazine before? I'd say yes. I think Dungeon alone is worth the price. Heck, I get more use out of the maps, not to mention the stat blocks, in Dungeon than almost any other non-core RPG book I've purchased.

I greatly appreciate that you read our criticism and answer to it. However, you answered none of the questions I raised-
people who like dungeon don't necessarily like poly and the other way round.
I, personally, am not whining about the price, per se. Id glady pay even $10 for an issue of dungeon, with pure dungeon content and a 100 page count, bi-monthly OR monthly.

As a matter of fact, I AM paying €12 for one issue of dungeon/poly right now. Which, of course, is not your fault at all - that's why I'm constantly referring to the original $price.

The question is, really, as a lot of people like only one half of the magazine right now, and as you're convinced of the qualitiy and value of poly - why don't you split it? you could use the same content as you do now! one month: 100p dungeon, next month: 100 pages Poly.

Is the reason, as someone suggested, that dungeon wasn't able to stand on its own feet anymore?

'cause in this case, I'd continue buying dungeon. I want my "old" dungeon back (I don't even need it in color), I don't want to kill dungeon.

Or is the reason that you feel that Poly couldn't stand on its own?

If this was the reason, I'd rest my case. Because you'd have to explain why you "force" dungeon readers to buy a magazine that only a minority wants.

tas.


and another thing about this can't/won't use poly argument. You seem to suggest, that everyone can use poly content for his game. after all, one can mine poly for ideas.
Fair enough. However, I could do the same with national geographic. I can use the pictures as visual props, I can use the articles for ideas and to flesh out the cultures in my campaign.
What I'm getting at is: you have a point there.
But that doesn't mean that these generic ideas that I can get anywhere are worth my money.

At the end of the day, you could sell ANYTHING and say:" well, if you can't use it for your game, your just not openminded and creative enough."

you know what I mean? It's not really a valid argument, because it misses the point: what if I prefer National Geographic for ideas? What if I'd rather spend my money on that?

THAT's the real question. I'm buying something I don't want. It's as if someone would pack together a car magazine and a TV magazine. Most people have both. Most people could use articles from either magazine. But they'd rather buy it SEPERATELY to have more choice. To be able to decide the magazine that suits their tastes best.

It's a difficult line of thought, and I fear that I didn't make myself entirely clear. I hope you understand my argument, nevertheless.

 

[Gallo22]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Dungeon Magazine Pricing Issue (long, sorry)

The cost of issue #98: $7. Just in Dungeon, you get "Flood Season," a 32+ page full-color adventure, and two short full color adventures totaling 9+ more pages. All told, it's about 45 pages of adventure content.

A high-quality 32-page adventure with black and white interiors from Wizards of the Coast (and most other publishers): $10.

I'm not even getting into the 30+ pages of Polyhedron content, since many of you have said you can't (won't?) find a use for it.

Are we happy with the price increase? No. But were we undercharging for the magazine before? I'd say yes. I think Dungeon alone is worth the price. Heck, I get more use out of the maps, not to mention the stat blocks, in Dungeon than almost any other non-core RPG book I've purchased.

Thanks for the reply Chris.

I never thought about using the stat blocks. Thats a pretty good idea!! I'll have to start going back through past issues!! It will save me alot of time with my own adventures.

While I understand your comparison of Dungeon to Module X please remember that when we (meaning us gamers) buy a module, we are buying it fully (or mostly) knowing its general content and we know "this is the adventure for me" or "this will be great" etc, etc. With having a subscription or purchasing from the shelf encased in plastic wrapping we are not always sure what we are going to get month to month. The issue can be hit or miss, and we all know from the threads that not every issue is for everyone. Thats why I really don't like comparing the two. Its unfair to both Dungeon and the Module.

My only true grip (putting everything else aside) is the large increase in price for a RPG magazine. It use to be where Dragon was the more expensive magazine and Dungeon was the cheaper (price wise) one.

I hate bringing in an outside comparison, but the most expensive gaming company out there, Games Workshop, still manages to have their supporting magazine White Dwarf for $4.99 a month with an average of 120 pages. And, the magazine is loaded with supporting articles for their products with full color photos. There is a lot of bite to their magazine for the price.


Gallo22

 

[Joseph Elric Smith]

I can buy nostalgia as being a motivating factor, but it needs to be put in context. A Buck Rogers mini-game would have been nostalgia-inducing and game related. But cartoons that never had gaming analogs aren't really appropriate. Even the Days of Our Lives rpg would be more relevant (I believe TSR put out some such thing in the early 80's).

Out of curiosity, are you sincerely interested in this mini-game, or just playing devil's advocate. I would be interested in knowing if there was anyone out there who thinks such a game is worth spending money on.

Hmmm...come to think of it though, there were people who liked the racing mini-game in Polyhedron. I guess there's no accounting for taste

Would I mind seeing it in the magazine sure, why not. Now would I buy a game liek that off the shelf, heck no.
Ken

 

[Ranger REG]

If Dungeon's survival would depend on Poly, this would be an entirely different situation, indeed.
Just out of curiosity, WHO said that the magazine wouldn't have survived last year without Poly?
Chris Thomasson or someone else from WotC/Paizo?
Do you have a link to that statement?
'Cause under these circumstances I'd continue buying Dungeon.

Of course, if it's just the statement of some Poly fan....

Wish I could help you, but since I'm not a paying Community Support Member of this board, I can't use the Search function.

But anyone who can, see if you can research it for me.