Dungeon Master's Guide 3?

[blalien]

Honestly as far as PHB4 goes I think they just plain ran out of enough material that was generally interesting to a large enough base of players to fill such a book.

I have had this conversation multiple times:

Other guy: This sucks, when are we going to see a PHB4?
Me: Well, what would you like to see in PHB4?
Other guy: Um...

I do still want to see incarnum and oriental classes, though.

 

[Riastlin]

I agree that we probably won't see a "DMG 3". However, I could see (whether next year or the year after) an "Advanced Dungeon Master's Kit/Guide", "Epic Campaign Handbook", "Guide to Epic Adventuring" etc., that covers much of want most of us wanted out of the DMG 3. They'll just call it something different. Think Mordenkainen's Magical Emporium. For all intents and purposes, this is simply "Adventurer's Vault 3".

I think others have hit the nail on the head in that they don't want to continue with the sequential numbering for the most part. Part of this is a nod to the new players they are hoping to attract with the Essentials line. If MME had been called "Adventurer's Vault 3" many new players may have assumed that they needed AV1 and AV2 first (even though this would not only be inaccurate, but counterproductive as those books don't have rarities). The problem is that the new player might be willing to drop $20 - $30 (haven't seen the price) on MME, but likely would not drop $90 on AV1, AV2 and MME. By the same token, convincing a new DM to pick up 3 DMGs instead of just the new one would be difficult.

The problem here of course though is that if they are truly trying to gear their sales toward the new players being brought in by Essentials, then the next logical step would be another book on paragon tier (hopefully though they'll just point to the DMG2).

And yes, the epic level play/epic level support is very much a chicken and the egg thing. This (I hope) is one good thing that might come out of the online character builder. If they see a lot of characters being played up to epic level, but then suddenly going "cold" (no further updates, levelling, etc.) then this might suggest that there's a potential market there but people are stopping at the end of paragon due to the lack of support.

 

[Dungeoneer]

I have had this conversation multiple times:

Other guy: This sucks, when are we going to see a PHB4?
Me: Well, what would you like to see in PHB4?
Other guy: Um...

I do still want to see incarnum and oriental classes, though.

I could imagine more classes, but it seems like 4e already has all the core races it can hold, and then some. Wanna play a living plant? Done. Living rock? Check. What's next, living food? "My Donutborn Monk uses Powdered Sugar!"

Of course there are quite a few monstrous races still untapped, but most of us DM's would prefer that they didn't appear in a book titled 'Player's Handbook'.

PLAYER: I rolled up a Dragon Paladin!
DM: You mean a Dragonborn Paladin.
PLAYER: No, an actual ancient red dragon! He attacks the evil sorceress and does... 328 ongoing fire damage!
DM: Before we get to that, let's talk about how your dragon manages to fit into the Neverwinter sewer system.

If something like that popped up in a Player's Options: Monstrous Races book, though, I wouldn't feel as bound to allow it in my game.

 

[blalien]

D&D will not be complete until the tressym is a playable race. Look it up.

 

[DEFCON 1]

Although I don't think they'd be important enough on their own to support the production of a PH4... I'm actually surprised we still haven't seen official DDI exclusive write-ups for the Goblin/Hobgoblin/Bugbear... considering those three are a fairly important trio of races in Eberron.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

I have had this conversation multiple times:

Other guy: This sucks, when are we going to see a PHB4?
Me: Well, what would you like to see in PHB4?
Other guy: Um...

I do still want to see incarnum and oriental classes, though.

IMHO 4e item crafting is pretty much Soulmelds with slightly different fluff. I think the main reason the 'fusing to chakra' thing existed was that there were so many tons of magic items that were basically mandatory in 3.5. Nobody would use melds if they HAD to take up slots. This is just not true in 4e. There isn't really an equivalent of incarnum, but honestly a couple feats could pretty well simulate it in 4e (ie give the character a movable bonus he can apply to various things). It was a very nicely flavored system, but I never thought the mechanics were really that special and a lot of them were more workarounds for issues in 3.5 than "because this is cool". So I think you really don't need a whole different set of classes and powers for it. Of course other people may think differently...

I guess I feel the same way about Oriental characters. There is really enough of a difference between a Samurai and a Fighter that it needs a class? I could definitely see some setting-specific feats and eastern flavored gear but I haven't yet seen a convincing argument that we need a whole alternate set of classes with all their baggage to adequately portray a Bushi, a Shugenja, or a Ninja. An OA setting book? Absolutely, love to see it if done well.

 

[Roland55]

I could imagine more classes, but it seems like 4e already has all the core races it can hold, and then some. Wanna play a living plant? Done. Living rock? Check. What's next, living food? "My Donutborn Monk uses Powdered Sugar!"

Of course there are quite a few monstrous races still untapped, but most of us DM's would prefer that they didn't appear in a book titled 'Player's Handbook'.

PLAYER: I rolled up a Dragon Paladin!
DM: You mean a Dragonborn Paladin.
PLAYER: No, an actual ancient red dragon! He attacks the evil sorceress and does... 328 ongoing fire damage!
DM: Before we get to that, let's talk about how your dragon manages to fit into the Neverwinter sewer system.

If something like that popped up in a Player's Options: Monstrous Races book, though, I wouldn't feel as bound to allow it in my game.

I HATE IT when the Internet glitches my XP!!

Ahem. "I'll 'see' your DonutBorn Monk and 'raise' you my PizzaBorn Barbarian."

There.

 

[blalien]

snip

I don't think 4e Incarnum should work the same way as 3.5 Incarnum. I just think it needs to happen because making your clothes glow blue is awesome. It would probably require a new set of mechanics to simulate the flavor. Just as long as those new mechanics are easily accessible. Nothing more complicated than psionic power points.

And yes, more oriental classes could be done with alternate builds. But they still need to happen.

 

[Dungeoneer]

I HATE IT when the Internet glitches my XP!!

Ahem. "I'll 'see' your DonutBorn Monk and 'raise' you my PizzaBorn Barbarian."

There.

Apparently this is actually the Living Junk Food race. Racial power: Hardening Arteries.

+2 bonus to CON and CHA,
-2 penalty to WIS.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

I don't think 4e Incarnum should work the same way as 3.5 Incarnum. I just think it needs to happen because making your clothes glow blue is awesome. It would probably require a new set of mechanics to simulate the flavor. Just as long as those new mechanics are easily accessible. Nothing more complicated than psionic power points.

And yes, more oriental classes could be done with alternate builds. But they still need to happen.

Seems to me there is just a certain overhead cost associated with every new set of mechanics. I'd rather just use Slayer for my odachi weilding samurai, knight for my regular old samurai, and tempest fighter or some rogue/ranger build for my two-weapon wielding one. Wu Jen is just a mage, shukenja could be one of several classes, sohei is probably a monk or maybe a cleric, etc. The existing 4e builds are no further from oriental legendary character archetypes than they are from western ones if you ask me. Less is more.

I'd point out too that IMHO the psionics system is a bit borked. Every time new mechanics get created they require new feats, new items, new classes, etc. It is a question of whether it is really cost effective. 4e is already such a huge system. If something can be achieved with a couple feats and some refluffing I think it is a lot more desirable to do that. Of course everyone is welcome to their own opinion as to if that is an adequate way to go for any given proposed addition to the game.