Dungeon World Meets Blades in the Dark

[Manbearcat]

I've been thinking about this a lot the last few years. A poster on here, @loverdrive , recently wrote a beautiful game that is a marriage/hack of these two games, but it doesn't do exactly what I've been thinking about.

I figured I'd put a thread out there where I can (a) put my ideas, (b) people can give feedback/their ideas, (c) and I can iterate.

I'll go ahead and get rolling.

There are many things that need to be tackled first, and I'm going to post some prelim thoughts, but here are the first things I feel need to be resolved before you work downward on the hiearchy:

* What is the Structure of play?

* What are the Factions thematically?

* What is the Stress analog?

* What is the Heat/Wanted Level analog?

* What is the Bluecoats analog?

* What is the Vice analog?

* How does the Payoff incentive structure work?


The Classes and Crew Analog (likely "Companies" which could range from Mercenaries to Scoundrels to Wardens to Holy Warriors to etc) and other things like this are well done on the totem pole. Those can easily be fleshed out and slotted in, but not before the other parts.

So with that, my first post below is going to be my thoughts on Structure.

 

[Manbearcat]

STRUCTURE

I'm envisioning Blades Structure but reskinned in a Torchbearer type way but with Dungeon World moves. Further, at the outset of play, you do just like Dungeon World. You make a map and you leave blanks. That map will have The Town which is the "home base of operations" for the Company at the beginning of the game. This might stay the home base throughout the game or the PCs might change their home base of operations (there will be incentive to stay there and incentive to move on). Creation of the Town will include layout/Wards and Factions (7-10 at the outset which includes infrastructure/government, essential trade guilds, rival Companies - which can include classic Thieves Guilds, Warlock Cabals, et al).

Beyond The Town, the only other thing that goes on the map at the initial session are the immediate topographical features directly outside of the town (perhaps its surrounded by Bleakwood Forest). The rest of the fleshing out of the map will happen through play (more on that below):

So here are my initial thoughts.

Town Phase

This is the analog for Blades' Free Play/Information Gathering phase. Here, the following happens:

* Companies look for Adventures (the Score analog) just like a Blades' Crew looks for Scores. This process will start filling out the map.

* If between Adventures, Company PCs get 2 * Downtime Activities (just like Blades except not a discrete phase).

* If an Adventure takes place in Town, the Entanglement that is rolled after the Adventure phase will be Town-related.

* Post-Adventure Payoff will take place here (all relevant accounting procedures).

Journey Phase

* If the Adventure takes place outside of Town, a Perilous Journey is required to get there.

* The rules for Perilous Wilds will be used here. For each day of Journey, there will be a Scout > then Navigate > then Make Camp (in which a Manage Provisions and Take Watch move will be made). This sequence of moves will determine (a) if there are an Dangers or Discoveries that have to be dealt with along the way, (b) the resolution of any Dangers/Discoveries, (c) the attrition of resources for the coming Adventure. This phase will also further flesh out the map.

* Most Adventures will be 1 day from Town, but some might be 2, or even 3. Each day requires a sequence of Journey moves to be made, which means that Loadout for each character (which I'll work on later) will have progressive devotion to Journey supplies the further out the Adventure is from the Town. However, Payoff will scale appropriately. The further the Adventure from town, the more Danger, the bigger Payoff.

Make Camp Phase

* This will be a mini version of the Town Phase, but in the wild. When in the wild (whether its a Journey or at an Adventure site), your Make Camp Phase will feature (i) 1 * Downtime Activity and (ii) a Take Watch move.

* Take Watch will determine if any Dangers or Discoveries take place during the Make Camp phase.

* Making Camp is not free. It will be resource-intensive, Danger-intensive, Loadout allocation-intensive. As such, it will be naturally restricted and an outgrowth of decision-points (do I want to Loadout more/pay a Porter in order to enable Make Camp?...do I want to spend the Coin...do I want risk the Danger?). For instance, if you have 4 characters going out into the wild, you'll have (at least) 4 Loadout Boxes that have to tick for Make Camp. If you want to be able to Make Camp * 3 (2 * Journey and 1 * Adventure), then you'll have brought 3 * Make Camp boxes to tick. Again, Load-out intensive and resource-intensive (it costs to secure those boxes to tick). Without those boxes to tick, you can't take advantage of 1 * Downtime Activity (which will be all of the things one would imagine from Recover to Prepare Spells/Commune to Salvage to Fortify etc).

Adventure Phase

* This will either be in town or in the wild.

* It will be handled just like Blades' Scores. Each PC will have a Loadout, selected Hirelings/Cohorts will be present (eg Porter/Donkey, Minstrel, Man-at-arms, Guide, et al), and an Engagement Roll will be made to cut right to the action/first obstacle (whether you're in the wild or in town).

* Once the Adventure is completed (successfully or not), there will be Entanglements rolled for. If you're in the wild, Entanglements will be related to your return journey home. If you're already in town, entanglements will be town/faction related.

---

Loop back to Town phase.

Thoughts? Questions?

 

[Fenris-77]

A couple of initial thoughts off the top if my head.

One, I might restrict the list of DT moves available for Camp use, or differentiate them from the list available in town.

Two, making camp without the resources means stress is a natural outgrowth of the resource model you're suggesting.

Three, I might make the loadouts here a little different than Blades. My first thought is to have the party fill however many slots they want with something I'll call 'supplies'. The remainder can be handled like Blades loadout. This gives a little push to resource management. I'd probably add a camp move to scrounge supply too.

Four, Things like wagons or horses could be something that the party has to acquire in-game which would place a natural gate on exploration because to start they can only take what they themselves can carry. Once the party acquires Porters, or horses, their reach increases.

Five, the initial town and surroundings seems like a cool place for a die-drop system of some kind. I might design the town the same way. Or off random tables. Could increase replay value.

Six, a useful analog for Heat could actually be Reputation (which I think I mentioned elsewhere at some point and called Legend?). The more famous the party is, the more trouble they attract (because the gods take notice or some such).

That's what I have off the top of head, all just spitballing. I really like the base you've laid down here.

 

[Ovinomancer]

So, as a systems engineer, I see a bunch of design absent requirements. What is this system to do? What are it's goals? Too often these aren't written down, and so design occurs that's clever but doesn't address needs. And, don't worry, you can always revisit requirements.

 

[Manbearcat]

That all looks really good and much of that are things percolating in my head.

Quick things briefly to fire off because I’m time limited.

* I'm envisioning a Supplies box part of Loadout like the below:

SUPPLIES (2 Load for 3 Boxes) - Enables 1 * Downtime Activity during Make Camp Phase.

Bringing supplies almost ensures a character is going to be at Medium Load. This really incentivizes (a) Company Advancements/Claims that increase Load for PCs, (b) having a Porter Cohort as part of the Company, (c) spending Downtime in Town to Acquire an Asset when you go on an Adventure (Donkey/Wagon and Wagoneer), (d) individual PC abilities that increase Load (and synergy with Heavies).

* The Town Phase will feature all of the typical Blades Downtime Activities. For Make Camp, I'm (preliminary) envisioning:

Recover: As per Blades, 4 Tick Longterm Project Clock to reduce each instance of Harm on your sheet by 1 (1 goes to 0, 2 goes to 1, 3 goes to 2). A Healer PC or Cohort would amplify this.

Fortify: Whatever your discipline (whether its praying to your deity, attuning to the natural world, meditating through ritualized exercise, etc), bolster your mind, body, or spirit for the coming day. Make your Action Roll to gain 1 Special Armor (to resist a Complication your Action Roll is under).

6 = 1 box against any Complication, regardless of Position.
4-5 = 1 box against a Risky/Controlled Complication under your Action Roll.
1-3 = 1 box against a Controlled Complication under your Action Roll.

Downtime Project: Begin a downtime project clock and make a move to tick it or make a move to tick an existing clock.

Fabricate/Forage/Salvage: So long as you have the raw materials, the tools on hand, and the capability, describe what you're doing (hunting/gathering, fletching, cooking, magically concocting/fabricating, etc) and roll Hunt, Discern, Illuminate, Tinker, or Attune (whichever applies):

6 = 2 Ammo or 2 Rations or 1 Adventuring Gear
4-5 = 1 Ammo or 1 Rations
1-3 = You come up empty handed

Prepare Spells: Roll Attune and prepare your Cantrips/Rotes and Spells equal to:

6 = Your Tier +2.
4-5 = Your Tier +1.
1-3 = Your Tier.

 

[Manbearcat]

So, as a systems engineer, I see a bunch of design absent requirements. What is this system to do? What are it's goals? Too often these aren't written down, and so design occurs that's clever but doesn't address needs. And, don't worry, you can always revisit requirements.

Dungeon World's aesthetic, tropes, and principles (No Myth Story Now w/ setting construction during play, each PC is unique to the world, Play to Find Out, Fill their Lives with Danger and Adventure) + a combination of Blades' and Torchbearer's Structure/Architecture.

So it should feel like a Dungeon World game (Protagonism, Setting and Story generation, snowballing action resolution), but with the aforementioned structure and decision-points that are the type of weightiness (tactical and strategic) that spin out of a game of Blades and Torchbearer.

 

[Ovinomancer]

Dungeon World's aesthetic, tropes, and principles (No Myth Story Now w/ setting construction during play, each PC is unique to the world, Play to Find Out, Fill their Lives with Danger and Adventure) + a combination of Blades' and Torchbearer's Structure/Architecture.

So it should feel like a Dungeon World game (Protagonism, Setting and Story generation, snowballing action resolution), but with the aforementioned structure and decision-points that are the type of weightiness (tactical and strategic) that spin out of a game of Blades and Torchbearer.

This is a proposed design solution. It's not answering the question of what things are considered critical for this new system to be successful.

Requirement elicitation is both the single most important thing in design and also the single hardest thing to do. This is because it's hard to get the specificity and understanding necessary to get good requirements. And, since an RPG is a system, systems engineering (which is the study of engineering as a process to successfully create complex systems) is applicable. So, requirements -- these should be SMART: Specific, Measurable, Achievable, Realistic, and Testable/Traceable. Specific covers requirements needing to have a level of detail and not be general statements. Look at a given requirement and see if it can be decomposed -- if it can, do so. Measurable is pretty obvious -- don't come up with requirements you cannot evaluate, like "is pleasing." Achievable is totally obvious. Realistic means that requirements should be within the scope of your time/effort budget, and pairs with Achievable. And, finally, Testable/Traceable means that you can look at the final result and trace your requirements to the result (or test it, which doesn't really apply to games unless you're talking playtesting, but that's a whole other can of worms about good testing rigor).

You've got some general statements, here, but these can be decomposed. I'd suggest doing so, that way you don't waste design effort on a clever mechanic that doesn't go to actually satisfy your design goal. It also helps getting stuck "in the weeds" on things that are nice but not critical, and allows you to chart a critical path so some piece of minor, but loved, clever design doesn't act to block overall design by trying to force it to fit.

 

[loverdrive]

Recover: As per Blades, 4 Tick Longterm Project Clock to reduce each instance of Harm on your sheet by 1 (1 goes to 0, 2 goes to 1, 3 goes to 2). A Healer PC or Cohort would amplify this.

I am a bit surprised, as healing is one of things that gets hacked most often!

Otherwise, I would love to see what you will come up with. If in the future you'll need help with layouting and maybe art, don't hesitate to ping me.

 

[Manbearcat]

I am a bit surprised, as healing is one of things that gets hacked most often!

I'm curious about your surprise. Do you mean why I'm (at least presently) leaning toward cribbing AW and Blades Harm and Recovery model whole hog vs going with DW's HP model (or some other derivation)?

If you're interested in my thinking on that, it goes like this:

* The Harm model is more visceral.

* The Harm model + Resistance (Saving Throws) mechanics + Armor Boxes (be it Class Features or Gear Features) + Downtime Activities creates very compelling, layered, decision-points and tactical/strategic overhead.

* Healers (Clerics, Paladins et al) deploying Cure x, y, z Wounds or Lay On Hands (and the like) easily interfaces well with the Harm model. Its just getting the balance right.

That is where I'm at on it!

Otherwise, I would love to see what you will come up with. If in the future you'll need help with layouting and maybe art, don't hesitate to ping me.

And you shall. And while I very much appreciate the kind offer, this isn't something I'm looking to publish (but if I was and I was looking for the type of help you're citing, you're certainly one I would go to given your talent!). I'm merely looking for a highly functional hack (with the conceptual framework I have above in mind) that will do what I'm wanting. If others are inclined to play it, they can have at it!

 

[loverdrive]

I'm curious about your surprise. Do you mean why I'm (at least presently) leaning toward cribbing AW and Blades Harm and Recovery model whole hog vs going with DW's HP model (or some other derivation)?

I'm not questioning your choices, I trust in your abilities.

It's just a bit surprising, because the most common houserule I've seen in Blades is somehow changing how recovering from harm works. People often find it too much debilitating and there's a running joke in BitD discord that every FitD game starts with modifying recovery rules.