D&D 5E Dungeons and Dragons and the RPG Stigma

[S_Dalsgaard]

I had no idea that our hobby was still seen in a bad light. A few months ago I was at a job interview and had no qualms mentioning that I play D&D and I actually used it as an argument for being good at working in groups and having social skills. I got the job, so it didn't seem to have a negative impact.

I couldn't imagine not speaking freely about D&D (and my other nerdy hobbies) on my FB and G+ profiles either (Søren Dalsgaard Brath - feel free to drop by). If people don't like it, they are free to move along.

 

[Grainger]

It's just highly dependent on who you're talking to. In the UK I think a lot of people will dismiss D&D and its players as being nerdy/"sad", but that's probably changing (and I admit that I'm not really on the pulse of public opinion). Even something like board-gaming still meets resistance (but it is now doing very well as a hobby) and D&D is anther step nerdier. Personally speaking, I probably wouldn't bring it up at a job interview, but neither would I hide it from colleagues once I got the job (unless I thought my colleagues were jerks).

 

[Grainger]

I should add that in the UK, as a man, you're only really allowed to be really into something if it's football or cars. If it's either of those, you can go into as much detail as you like - it's fine, if not positively encouraged. Any other subject at all? Being more a little bit into it is "sad" or "boring".

This is changing, I suspect, and of course not everyone thinks like this, but it is the prevailing culture. Stir in a "healthy" dose of anti-intellectualism, and "bookish" things like D&D have the odds stacked against them. To give an illustration: I was in a cafe, and someone made a negative comment about the history book I was reading (in a very affluent town, I should add)! Goodness knows how he'd have reacted if it had been the DMG (which, incidentally, I do take out to cafes)... I'm too old to much care what others think, except in a kind of "shaking my head" way. I suppose one way of looking at it is... if you're going to face disapproval for being into a mainstream subject, you might as well be an all-out geek.

 

[Tellerian Hawke]

One thing that I am fond of telling dudebros: "Ya know, Vin Diesel plays D&D."

And it's true, he does. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36_-DauQi0s

The looks on their faces is always priceless!

 

[DMZ2112]

My condolences, Silverfire, I wouldn't wish being a doctor or training to become a doctor on my worst enemy, and while this sort of nonsense is not the primary reason it is a strong corollary. He's an ass, yes, but the real problem is that he's an ass with some measure of control over you. I wish you the best in navigating the situation and definitely recommend that he not see you with your books again, much as it pains me to say it.

Personally, I am very open about my hobbies in my workplace -- I have a mug that says 'Dungeon Master' on it -- and reactions range from, "Really? Aren't you too old for that?" perhaps with a tinge of condescension, to "I always wanted to play/I wish I could get back into it." My answer to the first question is, "No," and I hand out my FLGS' business cards in response to just about everyone else.

I get more odd looks when the topic of conversation turns to television and I tell people that I never bother hooking cable up to my flatscreen.

But even so, I absolutely agree with the other posters who have said that nothing good for your career can result from discussing D&D in a professional environment, but I would argue that is the case for most hobbies, and also that 95% of the time, reactions will be neutral rather than negative. A religious leader in my acquaintance once said, "At best and at worst, [D&D] is a waste of time." It's just an unnecessary risk to take, gambling on whether or not your boss will think curling or bridge or basket weaving are stupid. So do as I say, not as I do.

My last experience with geek shaming was at Gen Con 2014, of all places.

I had the privilege of having dinner with Frank Mentzer and some of his games auction crew. Some friends and I were in an elevator returning from dinner and discussing Mentzer's encyclopedic knowledge of differences between printings of '70s and '80s D&D materials when someone else in the elevator, unrelated to us, commented, "Sounds like he needs a hobby."

I am pleased to report that this individual was summarily destroyed. But it is worth noting that /geek/ negativity towards D&D is an established thing, and I would be curious to know how many of Silverfire's dozen confrontations over the last year were with other geeks (including Dr. Asshat and his comic books and video games).

I find the condescension of Magic: the Gathering addicts particularly tragic.

 

[Riley]

Yeah, that guy was a jerk. As a doctor, unfortunately, I can attest that jerkiness is not unheard of in the profession.

Best to know about it now, rather than trust that he will write a good letter of recommendation for you. There are some physicians who will agree to write a letter of recommendation for someone, then write a letter which says essentially "don't accept this guy." It's the kind of thing a jerk might do.

If you do ask for a letter, be sure to ask whether he would be able to write a positive, or very positive, letter on your behalf. Doctor jerks do tend at least to be quite honest with their opinions - much like he was when he told you what he thought of D&D.

OTOH, his advice was good - don't mention D&D to the admissions committee. But that seems fairly obvious, much like I wouldn't mention my Lego collection or love of classic children's literature. It's just not relevant to whether or not you would be a good candidate for medical school.

 

[Morrus]

Yeah, that guy was a jerk. As a doctor, unfortunately, I can attest that jerkiness is not unheard of in the profession.

Don't woryr - it's common to all professions.

 

[Riley]

Medical Doctors are a an exclusive clique with their own sets of prejudices. You will be expected to conform to those expectations both professionally and personally.

That's true, but mostly so when you are in training. Once you are a full fledged, done-with-training physician, you gain a certain amount of privilege to be who you are.

Good luck, and remember not to be That Guy.

 

[vandaexpress]

I have kind of a weird experience with this.

I played D&D fairly openly in high school and early college years. After taking a break for a couple years, fearing the stigma, I told myself I was "growing up" and began to conform to what society esteems as successful. For 10 years I avoided D&D and TTRPGs, worked out, raced cars, started getting into sports, took up hip-hop dancing, skydiving, and hiking in Moab and Arches national park, shopped exclusively at high-end stores, lived in the trendiest apartments, hosted parties, dressed to the nines, owned a BMW M3, etc. I did it all to get the approval of society, women, etc. I was still a "nerd" but I kept it within "socially acceptable" limits, things like Call of Duty, Lord of the Rings, etc.

It was all so fake. Most of the time I was miserable. Dating was awful because I ended up with "gorgeous" women that I had nothing in common with, that I couldn't relate to, really. This would be a turnoff to both of us.

About 6 months ago I realized that I really wasn't happy. I wound up in therapy. After two months, I confided in my therapist that I had always enjoyed writing fantasy-type stuff but wrote it off as being childish. He encouraged me to rivisit and engage that part of my life. The last time I could remember really being excited and happy was when I was playing D&D with my fellow nerds. I reached out to my old friends that I hadn't talked to in ten years to see if anyone was interested. We got a 5E campaign going and at first I tried to hide it, but ultimately just decided to own it. That was probably the best decision I ever made.

I have a smaller, but much closer group of friends now, the women I date know that I D&D right off the bat. It's my pre-qualifier, if that's a problem for them, I know that it's not gonna work for a variety of reasons. Most of them wind up being curious, rather than repulsed. A lot of this has to do with leading a balanced lifestyle, I think. People write off D&D players because in their mind, so many of them fit a stereotype. I don't match that stereotype and I think that's how I've managed to open people's minds about it.

I've converted a number of "haters" to join my group since then. People that would do the nasally voice shut up once they came over to my place and saw me laboring over a detailed castle map for Hoard of the Dragon Queen's Greenest keep. Another guy came over and saw my projector table setup, minis, alea tool magnets, etc. His words were "Wow. I mean... I'll make fun of D&D as much as the next guy, but you make this look awesome." Having tangible stuff besides books to show them, having fruits of your creative efforts (maps, etc) on hand really helps to take the wind out of their sails in some cases.

Eventually, I broke the news to my parents and... they were thrilled. They're authors and they loved seeing how creative I get when I'm running a campaign. I literally get to bounce ideas off of them for campaigns whenever I have a family dinner. It's awesome, and now there's a bullywug love triangle in the mere of dead men that my players are highly amused by, thanks to my mom...

My mood changed almost overnight. I was happier. Eventually all aspects of my life (social, professional, spiritual) lifted.

Over time, I found there were a surprising number of people that played D&D that I never would have guessed. My landlord came by once, saw my stuff, and talked my ear off about his campaign that he and his buddies have been playing for years. A cute girl at my complex heard about it and informed me she plays as well, along with a bunch of others. It was surprising to me.

My group now consists of about 6 players, half are guys in their early thirties, the other half are conventionally attractive women in their early 20's. It's... not at all what I expected when I started DMing again, but I won't complain. I think nerd culture is becoming much more acceptable as a whole.

Observations

1. Use your best judgment before talking to people about it, but don't hide it (unless you wanna, but it's a lot of work, at least for me).
2. Some people are insecure jerks that need to read How to Win Friends and Influence People for basics on social interaction. Your Doctor friend is one of them. Unfortunately, there are others who are quite involved in the D&D hobby as well...
3. People have all kinds of crazy hobbies. In my case, I'm fortunate enough to have a generous salary to blow on D&D and can devote a lot of time to making my sessions awesome, people see the amount of work that goes into it and often respect that.
4. If you lead a balanced life outside of D&D, people will be much less likely to judge you negatively for it. Kick butt at work, be friendly with people, practice good hygiene, etc.
5. Pick your players carefully, if you can, from others that have balanced lives, good hygiene, and will provide a good experience for newcomers. I get calls at least twice a week from players asking what they can do to help make this or that newbie feel more welcome and comfortable. It helps a lot. Each person you convert to D&D becomes an evangelist, especially if you and your players own it and don't try and hide it.
6. Talk it up like it's the greatest thing in the world, because it is.
7. Refer to the CS Lewis quote above if people give you crap about needing to grow up. In my case, it was an article on Cracked that made a similar point that convinced me "acting like an adult by not doing things you enjoy" was stupid.
8. If you have younger family members, nieces, nephews, that sort of thing, run a (simplified) game for them when there's a family get-together. Your more curious relatives can overhear what's going on and get a feel for it, and they will love you for distracting their younger, more disruptive children. Your nephews will think you're the coolest uncle ever. It's a win-win-win. Minis and a map help with this. Let them win though, no TPKs, lol.
9. Or you can try to hide it from everyone. Honestly, that works for some. But don't be ashamed. My group's motto is "There's no shame in our game", and I mean it. I've lived the 'good life' and I got bored of it. My imagination is far more stimulating, and I'm finally around people that get me and are interested in the same stuff I am.

tl;dr - D&D is dope. Make it cool, don't be defensive, and don't be the stereotypical socially-retarded, poor hygiene, annoying, awkward know-it-all guy that people hate regardless of whether they play D&D or not. Make it your passion and people will tend to respect it. If they don't, they're the ones with the problem, not you. Don't 'sell out' to try and fit in with society's expectations like I did, you'll end up miserable.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

has anyone else had similar issues recently? Any stories of good? I'm sincerely hoping that this is an isolated incident, but it doesnt make me hopeful for the brand or for RPGs In general.

Nope. To my pleasant surprise, nobody at church that has batted an eyelash when my D&D hobby comes up. It wasn't that way in the 80s.