Parmandur
Book-Friend, he/him
Class to Clas is extensively balanced on the basis of spell Slotand HP. Whether you recognize it or not is irrelevant.
D&D (2024) Dungeons and Dragons future? Ray Winninger gives a nod to Mike Shea's proposed changes.
- Thread starter darjr
- Start date
Aldarc
Legend
The irony of this assertion following the wake of the past few pages of 4e discussion will likely not be lost on most thread participants.
While I think those things do happen, I also think that the "natural language" of 5E invites confusion, misunderstanding and opposed interpretations. What you gain in readability you potentially lose in clarity, and there is no better example that the 1400 post long argument about perception we just had.
GMforPowergamers
Legend
again... the fact that something can surprise you but not count as surprised, and the fact that you can ask to actively do something and be told that is covered by your passive score are the most recent 2... BUT lets go with 'what is a hit' for the most common "Wait what" that doesn't fit
Scribe
Legend
There is A point on the graph which 5e is balanced similar to how process is designed with an 80-20 rule.
If we agree with the Designers on that point and measure...is a different story.
Parmandur
Book-Friend, he/him
I have only seen that online, it never comes up in play, unlike 3E. I still don't know how grappling was supposed to work and we read the 3.x books nearly every session to figure that out. And in 5E arguably almost always easily resolved, usually by reading the DMG.
GMforPowergamers
Legend
you can make stuff up all you want but half or more of the game is hidden behind spells, and the most versatile characters fall ever so slightly behind the most dedicated focused ones in what the dedicated focused ones specialize in, with out giving up all of there versatility. I don't call that balanced at all.
the fact that MULTI full casters can go level 1- level 10 with the same number of attacks same damage on melee attacks as the fighter AND still have there spells is something that speaks for itself... but when Adventures in Middle Earth made non casters, they took BARD, took it's spell casting and said "Gee without that it is 98% balanced with rogue and fighter" shows a bigger issue.
Parmandur
Book-Friend, he/him
I mean, I haven't said anything against the 4E rules, just the presentation. Both 4E and 5E are well designed on the rules side, I am talking about their presentation.
It's way better balanced than 3E and AD&D, but there are still plenty of areas where it falls down and doesn't have to. I mean, compare fireball to vampiric touch. That's a pure, deadweight balance failure. Nothing else would be broken and nothing would be lost if vampiric touch were brought up to snuff.
Much of it is clear, but there are a number of areas where--again--it falls down and doesn't have to. My go-to example of this is the distinction between "attack with a melee weapon" and "melee weapon attack." Those are two different things, and this has a real impact in a non-trivial number of situations, and it shouldn't be like that.
GMforPowergamers
Legend
yup
