Dungeons & Dragons May Not Come Back to Greyhawk After 2024 Dungeon Master's Guide

D&D seems content with Greyhawk staying in the Dungeon Master's Guide.

greyhawk city.jpg


Wizards of the Coast does not appear to have future plans for the Greyhawk setting past the 2024 Dungeon Master's Guide. Speaking at a press event earlier this month, Dungeons & Dragons game architect Chris Perkins explained that the inclusion of Greyhawk campaign setting material in the upcoming rulebook was meant to stand on its own. "Basically, we're saying 'Hey DMs, we're giving you Greyhawk as a foundation on which you can build your own setting stuff,'" Perkins said when asked about future Greyhawk setting material. "Whether we get back to Greyhawk or not in some capacity I cannot say, but that's our intention for now. This is the sandbox, it's Greyhawk. Go off and run Greyhawk or Greyhawk-like campaigns with this if you wish. We may not come to this version of Greyhawk for a while because we DMs to own it and play with it. This is not a campaign setting where I think we need to go in and start defining large sections of the world and adding more weight of content that DMs have to sit through in order to feel like they're running a proper Greyhawk campaign."

The 2024 Dungeon Master's Guide includes a campaign setting gazetteer focused on the Greyhawk setting, one of D&D's earliest campaign settings. The use of Greyhawk is intended to be an example for DMs on how to build a full-fledged campaign setting, with an overview of major conflicts and places to explore within the world. New maps of both Oerth and the city of Greyhawk are also included in the rulebook.

However, while it seems like Wizards isn't committing to future Greyhawk campaign setting material, Perkins admitted that the fans still have a say in the matter. "We're not so immutable with our plans that if the fans rose up and said 'Give us something Greyhawk,' that we would say 'No, never,'" Perkins said. "That won't happen."

Perkins also teased the appearance of more campaign settings in the future. "We absolutely will be exploring new D&D worlds and that door is always open," Perkins said.
 

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Christian Hoffer

Christian Hoffer

mamba

Legend
I think my view was, why not have Greyhawk embrace its 1e roots and still have the quirky old feel to it?
I doubt they care much about GH as a setting in the sense that they will not publish much material for it. They used it as an example for a campaign setting in the DMG, they won’t create the equivalent of the two new FR books for it and expand upon the DMG.

For an example campaign setting it makes sense to support all PHB races, whether they use GH or come up with a new one, so once they decided to use GH for this, they added the races
 

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I started reading it then dropped it because you can almost hear the condescending tone of the author while reading it. Sure, there are changes that cause friction in continuity, but the problem is that the old Greyhawk had many problematic elements, and WotC tried to move away from them. I at least give them kudos for the effort, even if purists completely hate it.

We've seen remakes of old movies and video games over the past 30 years, and most become more popular than the original version. WotC basically did a reboot to Greyhawk with the 2024 DMG, and new players are more likely to accept this updated Greyhawk than the old one.

There is absolutely no reason to believe that at, at least more newer fans will be aware of the DMG version because they were never exposed to the OG version.
 





You'd think that.

But then you get a solid page of posts informing you that your opinion is your opinion and thus you shouldn't have stated it because that is bad and wrong and how pointing that out makes the person who did a superior human being and therefore all their D&D opinions correct.
Together we shall form La Resistance and discuss opposing views on Greyhawk until our heart's content then Vaalingrade! :D
 

Vaalingrade

Legend
Together we shall form La Resistance and discuss opposing views on Greyhawk until our heart's content then Vaalingrade! :D
I honestly just want someone to came back and describe cool parts of the setting again.

Last time it took three days for someone to tell me about the Bright Desert in a way that made it interesting. Then whenever I try to defend the setting due to that, I can only find sources designed to act a heavy-duty anesthetic.

I don't get it.

You ask me about Eberron and I will NEVER SHUT UP about all the great stuff about the settings.

You ask an FR fan, they can explain at length how it's not all about Elminster and Drizzt.

You ask fans of Dragonlance and... they'll tell you all about the novels.

You ask fans of Dark Sun and my depression comes back.

But Greyhawk has this weird thing where the fans are super tight-lipped about the actual setting. It's to the point where you would think the selling point is that it's a historical political drama, but then you find out that pretty much every named character in the D&D cannon is from here and the D&D villain everyone cares about comes from here, but no one seems to actually want to talk about that stuff, only that there's no Dragonborn allowed and some race supremacists are all brothers or something.
 

I honestly just want someone to came back and describe cool parts of the setting again.
At its heart Greyhawk is very pulpy. The Bright Desert is especially pulpy.

The Bright Desert is an anomalous region (as in you shouldn't have a desert next to a cold mountainous area) that is the result of an evil wizard-king trying to use the Crown of Scorpions, an artifact tied to Tharizdun the Destroyer, to ensure his rule. Instead it turned him and everyone around him into man-scorpions (like in the Rock movie, but this was written years before that) and the formerly feritle area into a massive desert. There are also desert centaurs, ghosts, norkers, dragons, ancient Flan (the Flan are the celtic/aboriginal inspired original inhabitants of the Flanaess) ruins and so on roaming the region, as well as desert banditos. Right on Greyhawk's doorstep.

Of course the Bright Desert becomes really interesting when Rary the Traitor moved there after he was caught trying to explode the signing of the Greyhawk Wars peace treaty. He transplants a lot of his allies with him to the desert, including some desert nomads from the other side of the map. He wants to get a hold of said crown and claims it's to undo the curse on the region. Unfortunately his surname is "the Traitor" now, so make of that what you will. Also the Crown might be one of the few bonds that prevents Tharizdun the Destroyer from escaping his prison and laying waste to the Oerth so again - would you trust someone called The Traitor with one of the nuclear codes?

Last time it took three days for someone to tell me about the Bright Desert in a way that made it interesting. Then whenever I try to defend the setting due to that, I can only find sources designed to act a heavy-duty anesthetic.
There are 3 time periods that Greyhawk supplements used to come in.

Classic Era (576-582 CY). This is the era in which all the classic Dungeons and Dragons adventure modules are set like Temple of Elemental Evil etc. The ones WotC really seems to like repackaging.
Greyhawk Wars Era (582-585 CY). Takes place immediately after the Greyhawk Wars (though you could set it during if you wanted). The tone is far darker and more desperate than the classic era and adventures set in this time focus on fending off evil and keeping the flame of hope and goodness alive.
Renewal Era (586-591 CY and beyond). The forces of good start to push back the tide of evil towards a fragile equilibrium between light and dark.

Problem is Greyhawk fans are dogmatic. None of them even agree how many "time periods" there are. Some swear by Gygax's original boxed set, some like From the Ashes, very few prefer the subsequent era which tried to dial the doom back a little (though there were still some places like Onnwal where the Wars hadn't ended every nearly a decade later).

I'm a big fan of the post-Wars period where the setting became less vanilla D&D and more British Grimdark fantasy. Entire nations were destroyed by magic and are now smouldering ruins, the evil powers were checked but have made gains, loads of demons and devils are swarming the invaded realms and some of the good countries are now bankrupt, paranoid of strangers and prone to the odd peasant uprising because they cannot feed their people.

The Circle of Eight by this point is the Circle of Five as Rary managed to kill 2 of the members before having a final meeting with HR.

There's a thing called the Doomgrinder introduced - it is a mysterious stone windmill no-one knows who built it.

"Legend has it that the Doomgrinder is counting down the years to a major cataclysm as great as the Invoked Devastation. One of its sails is now but two degrees away from its zenith, and some say that when that sail moves to that
point, the end will be at hand."

This era is much more lore/sourcebook heavy and far less module heavy (in a good way - the author they had writing the supplements could pack in a lot of good stuff). It focused a lot less on Greyhawk City and more on the outer realms of the Flanaess. There is the odd gem of a module like Road of Skulls where you have to infiltrate Iuz's capital to rescue one of the old rulers of the Flanaess that Iuz captured when he steamrollered through the Shield Lands. It's pretty dark given that Iuz builds his roads out of biodegradable materials, but not in a good way.

you find out that pretty much every named character in the D&D cannon is from here and the D&D villain everyone cares about comes from here,
Assuming you mean Vecna, yes he first appeared in a Greyhawk module where you got to play as the Circle of Eight for the first five minutes... before Vecna kills them all and you get your real characters. This is also an excuse for why the Circle were out of play in the Wars - Mordenkainen had to clone them. As for the Circle members killed at the end of the war, well Rary the Traitor had his allies get rid of all their cloning facilities.

I think he was pretty decisively defeated in the adventure, but because folk liked him he got to become a god and star in Ravenloft and Planescape adventures. Something similar happened to the lich Aza'lin who popped up in Ravenloft.

but no one seems to actually want to talk about that stuff, only that there's no Dragonborn allowed and some race supremacists are all brothers or something.
Folk round here really love their Dragonborn. :D
 

Vaalingrade

Legend
Holy crap, THANK YOU.

That's the stuff all these threads should be talking about.

Evil. Windmill.

There is an evil windmill in the setting and that isn't mentioned in the first sentence and first post of every Greyhawk thread. I've been playing this game for quarter century and this is the first time I've ever heard that.
 

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