Dungeons & Dragons May Not Come Back to Greyhawk After 2024 Dungeon Master's Guide

Wizards of the Coast does not appear to have future plans for the Greyhawk setting past the 2024 Dungeon Master's Guide. Speaking at a press event earlier this month, Dungeons & Dragons game architect Chris Perkins explained that the inclusion of Greyhawk campaign setting material in the upcoming rulebook was meant to stand on its own. "Basically, we're saying 'Hey DMs, we're giving you Greyhawk as a foundation on which you can build your own setting stuff,'" Perkins said when asked about future Greyhawk setting material. "Whether we get back to Greyhawk or not in some capacity I cannot say, but that's our intention for now. This is the sandbox, it's Greyhawk. Go off and run Greyhawk or Greyhawk-like campaigns with this if you wish. We may not come to this version of Greyhawk for a while because we DMs to own it and play with it. This is not a campaign setting where I think we need to go in and start defining large sections of the world and adding more weight of content that DMs have to sit through in order to feel like they're running a proper Greyhawk campaign."

The 2024 Dungeon Master's Guide includes a campaign setting gazetteer focused on the Greyhawk setting, one of D&D's earliest campaign settings. The use of Greyhawk is intended to be an example for DMs on how to build a full-fledged campaign setting, with an overview of major conflicts and places to explore within the world. New maps of both Oerth and the city of Greyhawk are also included in the rulebook.

However, while it seems like Wizards isn't committing to future Greyhawk campaign setting material, Perkins admitted that the fans still have a say in the matter. "We're not so immutable with our plans that if the fans rose up and said 'Give us something Greyhawk,' that we would say 'No, never,'" Perkins said. "That won't happen."

Perkins also teased the appearance of more campaign settings in the future. "We absolutely will be exploring new D&D worlds and that door is always open," Perkins said.

 

[pemerton]

There was a box set for the Free Coty of Greyhawk, haven't read it myself (itbis post-Gygax, so of questionable use

I used the City of GH boxed set a lot back when it came out - 1990 and 1991 especially, when most of the action of my Rolemaster game took place in and around the Free City.

 

[QuentinGeorge]

I started reading it then dropped it because you can almost hear the condescending tone of the author while reading it. Sure, there are changes that cause friction in continuity, but the problem is that the old Greyhawk had many problematic elements, and WotC tried to move away from them. I at least give them kudos for the effort, even if purists completely hate it.

We've seen remakes of old movies and video games over the past 30 years, and most become more popular than the original version. WotC basically did a reboot to Greyhawk with the 2024 DMG, and new players are more likely to accept this updated Greyhawk than the old one.

I think it's more likely that we'll never see it again after the 2024 DMG.

 

[dave2008]

I think it's more likely that we'll never see it again after the 2024 DMG.

Depends on what you mean by "see." Almost every adventure WotC puts out has had a how to use in Greyhawk section. It makes it a lot easier for new DMs/players to do that now that they have a starting point for that setting.

 

[Stuart Kerrigan]

I'm also over this as well. I'm grateful with those who indulged me, lol.

Now, I have the 2024 info, Living Greyhawk Gazetter and the 1983 World of Greyhawk book. Do I need something more, or this is enough to have "the basics"

The LGG is pretty much the definitive treatment of Greyhawk, so you have everything. Depends what area you want to set a campaign in - I also recommend:-

• From the Ashes as it has content that is not replicated anywhere else in its Campaign Book.
• WGR4 The Marklands, WGR5 Iuz the Evil and Ivid the Undying - which (I think) was the first supplement ever released electronically and is free, as well as awesome.
• City of Greyhawk Boxed Set if you want the full skinny on the city itself.

 

[Vaalingrade]

I think I've been pretty forthright in the various GH threads over the past few months.

It's a highly playable FRPGing setting:

*It has all the tropes, right in the centre of the map: Dwarves, an isolated Elven kingdom, the Pomarj overrun by Orcs, pirates on the Wild Coast, desert and arid hills, urban adventure (Greyhawk, Hardby, Dyvers), etc.​

​

*It has REH-esque ancient empires whose liches, ruins, magic, etc can still be found throughout the land.​

So at least for a fairly mainstream approach to FRPGing, it has everything one needs to start playing! (As far as a setting is concerned.)

The politics of the Great Kingdom, the plots of the Scarlet Brotherhood, the knights of Veluna and Furyondy, etc are all added bonuses.

But you can see how this pitch just tells me that it's like all the other settings and nothing about what makes GH cool or unique, right?

Same old tropes plus the same old Conan tropes that are forced in somewhere in most other settings, plus vague politics, a sinisterly names group of villains and then two proper nouns I have never seen mentioned before that are then unexplained that I'm assuming are also villains by comma usage alone.

None of that wants me to know more.

Where's Greyhawk's Dragonmarked Houses and Fantasy Cold War? Where's it's return of the gods and dragon armies? Where's it's Dracula cosplayer and ironic hell? Where's it's space hippos and realmspace? Where's it's annoying wizard sleeping with the concept of magic?

Where's the Evil Windmill? Or an equivalent from a module people like? Where's the cool stuff that's Greyhawk?

 

[dave2008]

But you can see how this pitch just tells me that it's like all the other settings and nothing about what makes GH cool or unique, right?

This is an argument that GH doesn't need to be unique. That instead other settings need to be unique compared to GH.

 

[mamba]

This is an argument that HW doesn't need to be unique. That instead other settings need to be unique compared to GH.

I get the ‘It's a highly playable FRPGing setting’ and ‘So at least for a fairly mainstream approach to FRPGing, it has everything one needs to start playing!’ parts, but why does GH get treated as the default every other setting needs to set itself apart from?

50 years ago that might have made sense by virtue of it being the first D&D setting, but today that is not really something to get people interested.

On the other hand I am not even sure that WotC wants to create interest in it, they are not likely to do much with the setting going forward

 

[Stuart Kerrigan]

But you can see how this pitch just tells me that it's like all the other settings and nothing about what makes GH cool or unique, right?

Same old tropes plus the same old Conan tropes that are forced in somewhere in most other settings, plus vague politics, a sinisterly names group of villains and then two proper nouns I have never seen mentioned before that are then unexplained that I'm assuming are also villains by comma usage alone.

None of that wants me to know more.

Where's Greyhawk's Dragonmarked Houses and Fantasy Cold War? Where's it's return of the gods and dragon armies? Where's it's Dracula cosplayer and ironic hell? Where's it's space hippos and realmspace? Where's it's annoying wizard sleeping with the concept of magic?

Where's the Evil Windmill? Or an equivalent from a module people like? Where's the cool stuff that's Greyhawk?

The windmill is near the City of Greyhawk. (Ignore the module named Doomgrinder, we retconned it in LG days). In fact if you want more Windmilly type places, I recommend this free archive of official Greyhawk articles that I among others wrote for the Living Greyhawk website. The Doomgrinder is mentioned in it. Link is near the bottom of the post.

But, ok - here's another one.

You know Death Knights. As in Lord Soth. They're actually from Greyhawk first. (They were arguably placed there when they were introduced in Dragon back in its double digit days).

The Knight Protectors were once well-respected, powerful and influential, sworn to ensure a united and protected Great Kingdom under an honorable and lawful Overking. Although some of their number were followers of Heironeous (LG god of righteous battle) and Hextor (LE god of battle and tyranny, not a chill dude), their rivalry turned outward as they sought to surpass one another in deeds of glory.

Over 350 years ago the Knight Protector Sir Kargoth was passed over for the position of Knight Commander for a younger, more pious knight, Sir Benedor. Despite the fact both were paladins of Heironeous Kargoth challenged him to a duel. Though Benedor was his inferior in combat the duel ended in a stalemate. Kargoth was wroth and fled the scene, ignoring Benedor's hand of friendship. Enroute to his lands he stumbled into a shrine of Demogorgon, who offered him the power the Knights had refused him and more...

Now masked in armor to hide the disfiguration his pact had caused Kargoth persuaded thirteen of his fellow knights to raid the Temple of Lothan north of Rel Deven. These fourteen were the Oerth’s first Death Knights as Kargoth's presence was enough to defile an artifact in the temple, and in doing so unleashed a horrific spawn of Demogorgon that slithered toward the nearby capital Rauxes, leaving destruction in its wake. The loyal Knight Protectors, led by Benedor, ultimately halt its progress, but it is a pyrrhic victory – they are too late to save members of the royal family at Carnifand and suffer heavy losses during the battle.

For Kargoth and his 13 traitors they rose as Death Knights. Each now has their own plots and perfidity. Some have overcome their enslavement to Demorgon by embracing different faces of evil. Benedor himself achieved a measure of immortality and is now called St. Benedor. Kargoth, still petty enough, demanded that Demogorgon raise him to sainthood as well, and thus is St. Kargoth the Destroyer.

 

[Vaalingrade]

This is an argument that HW doesn't need to be unique. That instead other settings need to be unique compared to GH.

And that's an argument for why WotC isn't reprinting it and probably shouldn't have taken up DMG space to put it in. It is so weird to see actual fans essentially putting forward that there's nothing uniquely of value in their apparent favorite setting.

Especially since from other people that's clearly not true.

Guys, @Stuart Kerrigan is trying to hard, putting in good work and the rest of the GH fandom seems to be dead set on undoing that.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Ok - here's another one.

Thank you again for actually providing nice things about the setting when people keep insisting on... like not for some reason.