Dungeons & Dragons Releases New Unearthed Arcana Subclasses, Strongly Hinting at Dark Sun

Wizards of the Coast has released four new D&D subclasses for playtesting, all of which have heavy thematic ties to the post-apocalyptic Dark Sun setting. The four subclasses, released as "Apocalyptic Subclasses," include the Circle of Preservation Druid, the Gladiator Fighter, the Defiled Sorcerer, and the Sorcerer-King Patron Warlock. Although not stated outright, the Gladiator and Sorcerer-King Patron are explicit nods to the Dark Sun setting, set in a ruined world ruled by Sorcerer-Kings where gladiatorial fights were common.

The Circle of Preservation Druid creates areas of preserved land that grants buffs to those who stand upon it. The Gladiator adds secondary Weapon Mastery properties to their attacks, with bonus abilities. Notably, the Gladiator uses Charisma as its secondary stat. The Defiled Sorcerer can expend its hit dice to amp up damage to its attacks and can also steal the life of its targets to deal additional damage. The Sorcerer-King Patron gains a number of abilities tying into tyranny and oppression, with the ability to cast Command as a Bonus Action without expending a spell slot, causing targets to gain the Frightened Condition, and forcing those who attack them to re-roll successful attacks.

The survey for the subclasses goes live on August 28th.

 

[Remathilis]

I mean, I’ll gladly admit that my take is both quite radical and decidedly non-canon. But I think it’s the right answer to how to update Dark Sun for modern sensibilities, without watering down its fundamental character. It’s not really the hopepunk angle others have advocated for, though I do think there is room for elements of that. But, fundamentally my stance is that If the critique of OG Dark Sun was that it was all edge no point, the solution is not to file down the edge, but to hone it into a point.

The issue is carrots and sticks. D&D is still a game, and the has to be a better trade off for preserving than a feeling of moral superiority to work. That's part of the fundamental flaw in Dark Sun if you want it to be hopepunk rather than grimdark: you need to incentivize hope rather than punish it.

Stepping back from any narrative metaphor, there has to be a balancing factor to a make preserving viable. Something like: preserving weakens your spells X%, but the people off Athas won't immediately try to kill you on sight (including your fellow PCs), while defiling gives you full ability from the PHB at the cost of harming everything and everyone whenever you cast (potentially even yourself) and can't set foot within 20 miles of civilization without torches and pitchforks being aimed in your direction. But if the intent is to make defiling even remotely a viable PC option, you can't make their drawback being unplayable and thus preserver being the arcane option that will actually be able to go on adventures isn't an advantage.

You can't make preserving overall weaker and expect it to be used unless you make defiling so odious that no one in their right mind would play one.

 

[Charlaquin]

The issue is carrots and sticks. D&D is still a game, and the has to be a better trade off for preserving than a feeling of moral superiority to work. That's part of the fundamental flaw in Dark Sun if you want it to be hopepunk rather than grimdark: you need to incentivize hope rather than punish it.

Stepping back from any narrative metaphor, there has to be a balancing factor to a make preserving viable. Something like: preserving weakens your spells X%, but the people off Athas won't immediately try to kill you on sight (including your fellow PCs), while defiling gives you full ability from the PHB at the cost of harming everything and everyone whenever you cast (potentially even yourself) and can't set foot within 20 miles of civilization without torches and pitchforks being aimed in your direction. But if the intent is to make defiling even remotely a viable PC option, you can't make their drawback being unplayable and thus preserver being the arcane option that will actually be able to go on adventures isn't an advantage.

You can't make preserving overall weaker and expect it to be used unless you make defiling so odious that no one in their right mind would play one.

I mean, my design goal isn’t to encourage players to use preserving. It’s to encourage them to use defiling. I want defiling to be the easy path. I want it to be tempting not because it gives you a huge boost, but because taking the moral high ground is painfully inconvenient. If that makes it grimdark rather than hopepunk, so be it.

 

[Mournblade94]

We'll disagree strongly on that.....

You've got alot of the Greyhawk gan leaders putting out good stuff for Greyhawk. Willing to put things in supplements like Orrca being actually half orcs in that setting and Goliaths being a severe roleplay challenge. They even convert spells from the Greyhawk guide.

Where i dont think for a minute the new people at WOTC can do Darksun correctly I am sure fans can.

Ed Greenwood still does FR for DMGuild. Hes careful not to step on WOTC toes but everything he does is better than what WOTC releases. They fans at this point are better for old settings than the staff of WOTC that only know it from legend.

Chris Perkins new DS was a bad idea for an update. I still think he's right. I'd rather have no update than a sanitized update.

 

[Chaltab]

I mean, my design goal isn’t to encourage players to use preserving. It’s to encourage them to use defiling. I want defiling to be the easy path. I want it to be tempting not because it gives you a huge boost, but because taking the moral high ground is painfully inconvenient. If that makes it grimdark rather than hopepunk, so be it.

Okay, but why? The original fiction was always "the method to not ruining the environment exists, but it's gate-kept by the powerful elite class who benefit from the status quo." Which seems way more relevant to me than the notion of individuals making painful sacrifices for an ultimately meaningless moral high ground.

 

[Mournblade94]

Help me understand, because I feel like I'm missing something. How does refining Dark Sun take away anything from you? I'm an old school fan, started in '81, and I've never felt that something was taken away from me when it changed down the road. If something went a direction I didn't really like, I just kept playing the version I did like.

Because the shared experience for we gamers break. You now have different factions like in Star Wars fandom.

The Luke Skywalker of the Disney era is very different than the Luke of the Lucas era. Try to get those 2 factions to talk about Luke and it breaks down one way or the other.

The problem is they want the old money who has the disposable income but wont give them what they want.

The Wheel of Time show and the Witcher Netflix travesty is a good example of this. Find something with a built in fanbase, failed to deliver to that fanbase in seeking new fanbase, and the effort fails because you dont get original buy in. Then the new fans get angry at old fans for not supporting THEIR thing.

Do you really think Disney would not have released more Star Wars movies if they made a sequel trilogy that pleased the previous fanbase? We'd have a movie every year.

Now these companies are being met with Apathy because the fans that always supported them dont trust them to deliver.

 

[Remathilis]

I mean, my design goal isn’t to encourage players to use preserving. It’s to encourage them to use defiling. I want defiling to be the easy path. I want it to be tempting not because it gives you a huge boost, but because taking the moral high ground is painfully inconvenient. If that makes it grimdark rather than hopepunk, so be it.

That just reinforces my long held belief that Dark Suns biggest draw was that it is a setting that isn't even morally gray, it's black vs pitch black and the winners are whoever can be the biggest bastards. It permitted, may encouraged, you to be a bunch of be selfish and cruel. If the settings incentivizes you to be evil and ruthless to get ahead, then you don't have hope. And I have enough of that just living in the real world right now, I don't want it in my elf game.

 

[Charlaquin]

Okay, but why? The original fiction was always "the method to not ruining the environment exists, but it's gate-kept by the powerful elite class who benefit from the status quo." Which seems way more relevant to me than the notion of individuals making painful sacrifices for an ultimately meaningless moral high ground.

Great question! My answer is that we’re past the point where "the method to not ruining the environment exists, but it's gate-kept by the powerful elite class who benefit from the status quo” is the message that needs to be heard. People have throughly absorbed that message, and in fact many use it as an excuse to throw their hands up and say there’s nothing they can do as an individual that will make a difference. We need to start messaging about the possibility, and necessity, of collective action. As well, we have already done irreversible damage, and now need to change course from preventative measures to symptom management. The climate has changed significantly and is going to continue to change, and we all are going to have to make changes to adapt to it. Some of the things we take for granted are just not going to remain viable in the world we’re going to have to live in.

 

[Mournblade94]

we did get Radiant Citadel. Did it sell? no idea, but you cannot say that WotC does not try new things.

Also, given how many complaints there are about how the setting by the same name is so drastically different, you cannot even say that they always just recycle the same stuff. They just reuse the name for nostalgia (however important that is when 95% of players have never played anything but 5e…) and name recognition reasons

In book stores i see 6 copies of the book at least on the shelves. No exaggeration every book store or game store i go in has multiple copies of Radiant Citadel, Strixhaven, and Dragonlance. The other books are usually single unless they're core.

This tells me if they sold they did not sell to the ones that use books.

They should of just packaged Radiant Citadel as 5e modern because that's what those adventures were. And cooking.

 

[Mournblade94]

Name one non-parodic grimdark that doesn't suck.

So your going to protect yourself from any exampke by including a completely subjective qualifier? That does not sound like confidence that there can be no examples provided.

 

[Charlaquin]

That just reinforces my long held belief that Dark Suns biggest draw was that it is a setting that isn't even morally gray, it's black vs pitch black and the winners are whoever can be the biggest bastards.

That’s not my intent. My intent is to say that doing the right thing is hard, and needs to be done anyway.

It permitted, may encouraged, you to be a bunch of be selfish and cruel. If the settings incentivizes you to be evil and ruthless to get ahead, then you don't have hope. And I have enough of that just living in the real world right now, I don't want it in my elf game.

I mean, fair. My take is pretty bleak, and it’s understandable if it doesn’t appeal to many.