DuskBlades

[UltimaGabe]

I also think its stupid that duskblades (and bards) don't get mage armor.

Sure, you can wear light armor, so MOST people wouldn't use it. But some people want no ACP, some people want the ability to walk around without any armor and have protection, some people like having armor that works against incoporeal creatures. And some people are willing to use a spell slot to get that protection.

Remember options not restrictions?

Don't you think Rogues would love to have Mage Armor too? Lots of Clerics and Druids would love Mage Armor as well. You know, every Fighter would love to be able to heal himself. Oh, and Mages would love to be invisible without spending a spell slot. Wouldn't that be great? But since when are those restrictions? Is it a restriction to NOT give a class something they can benefit from? If so, every single class everywhere has ALWAYS has restrictions. It's the entire point of the game. If you're playing a Duskblade, and you want to have a +4 armor bonus that doesn't have an armor check penalty, either save up for a Mithral Shirt, or pay 50gp for a potion of Mage Armor. It's that simple.

Every mage out there would LOVE to be able to spend a spell slot to get Cure spells. There's nothing in their class that allows them to heal damage, short of Limited Wish, Wish, and Vampiric Touch- whereas Duskblades can wear armor, it just (might) give them an armor check penalty, if they're too cheap to buy one of the best-priced armors in the game. So Wizards deserve Cure spells a heck of a lot more than Duskblades deserve Mage Armor, but I don't see you lobbying for that, do I?

 

[nittanytbone]

Getting Mage Armor isn't a big deal. Just buy some potions of it. Its only a first level spell.

Or, research it to add it to the class spell list if you really want it that much. Its RAW and should make anyone happy.

Honestly a mithral chain shirt is just as good for your light armor wearers.

 

[Gloombunny]

Don't you think Rogues would love to have Mage Armor too? Lots of Clerics and Druids would love Mage Armor as well. You know, every Fighter would love to be able to heal himself. Oh, and Mages would love to be invisible without spending a spell slot. Wouldn't that be great? But since when are those restrictions? Is it a restriction to NOT give a class something they can benefit from? If so, every single class everywhere has ALWAYS has restrictions. It's the entire point of the game. If you're playing a Duskblade, and you want to have a +4 armor bonus that doesn't have an armor check penalty, either save up for a Mithral Shirt, or pay 50gp for a potion of Mage Armor. It's that simple.

Every mage out there would LOVE to be able to spend a spell slot to get Cure spells. There's nothing in their class that allows them to heal damage, short of Limited Wish, Wish, and Vampiric Touch- whereas Duskblades can wear armor, it just (might) give them an armor check penalty, if they're too cheap to buy one of the best-priced armors in the game. So Wizards deserve Cure spells a heck of a lot more than Duskblades deserve Mage Armor, but I don't see you lobbying for that, do I?

I don't think that's quite fair. A warrior-mage who uses defensive spells in place of armor is not at all unreasonable, conceptwise, or we wouldn't have the Abjurant Champion. It's not comparable to fighters casting heal spells - mage armor is something that it would actually make sense for duskblades to have access to.

And again from the balance perspective: using mage armor would almost always be a suboptimal choice for a duskblade anyway. A mithril chain shirt gives the same AC bonus and same lack of ACP, is affordable at level, like, 3, and can be enhanced to give a better AC bonus. Using mage armor instead would pretty much just be for style.

 

[UltimaGabe]

And again from the balance perspective: using mage armor would almost always be a suboptimal choice for a duskblade anyway. A mithril chain shirt gives the same AC bonus and same lack of ACP, is affordable at level, like, 3, and can be enhanced to give a better AC bonus. Using mage armor instead would pretty much just be for style.

I agree that it wouldn't be overpowered, but, as written, the class doesn't need it, and therefore doesn't have it. That's not to say that it's out of the class' reach- as I and others said, you can just get potions of it. Sure, it might make sense for them to have access to it, but they don't. If you want style that your class doesn't normally get, and you're already forsaking one of the class' main abilities (that is, armored casting), don't expect the class to automatically have what you're looking for. Why in the world would the class give you Armored Casting (Light) if they expected anybody to NOT wear light armor?

 

[Gloombunny]

Why in the world would the class give you Armored Casting (Light) if they expected anybody to NOT wear light armor?

Because flexibility in a class is a good thing? I mean, you could just as well say "Why in the world do fighters have exclusive access to Weapon Specialization if they expected anybody to not take it?" And yet, fighters have the choice of taking Weapon Specialization or a different feat, and that's generally considered a good thing. If it makes sense thematically and isn't a balance issue, then why not let duskblades cast mage armor? There's really no reason for it not to be an option.

 

[Kat']

Hey - why don't bards get Mage Armor?

 

[Herzog]

Because Bards suck?

But seriously, people complaining about the spells of a duskblade should look at the bard's spell list. A lot of those spells are save-or-nothing, and the DC's are ridiculously low, and/or are completely useless in combat.
Compare that with the Duskblade spells, which actually enhance his combat abilities directly.

Herzog

 

[Haffrung Helleyes]

OK, I have a question

I know this is OT a bit, but it does regard duskblades

For thematic reasons, I have banned low level Conjuration (teleportation) magic in my game, for all classes. None of these spells become available until spell level 4.


The thing is, I have a guy who wants to play a duskblade, and there are a lot of these spells on the duskblade list.

Would it be imbalancing to give the duskblade some low level defensive spells (shield, mirror image, displacement, etc) in place of these?

Ken

 

[Kat']

It wouldn't, IMO. The duskblade would trade offensive abilities and movement for defense. Give it a try, and if it's unbalanced, take it back.

Side note: I would STRONGLY advise you not to let the DB get Mirror Image. For a primary melee character, Mirror Image is just way too good.

 

[UltimaGabe]

Because flexibility in a class is a good thing? I mean, you could just as well say "Why in the world do fighters have exclusive access to Weapon Specialization if they expected anybody to not take it?" And yet, fighters have the choice of taking Weapon Specialization or a different feat, and that's generally considered a good thing. If it makes sense thematically and isn't a balance issue, then why not let duskblades cast mage armor? There's really no reason for it not to be an option.

Look, the fact of the matter is that Mage Armor isn't on a Duskblade's spell list because they don't need it. They can wear Light Armor and not suffer Arcane Spell Failure, which Wizards cannot do (which is the entire point Wizards get Mage Armor to begin with). They don't need it. Sure, it wouldn't be gamebreaking if they had it, but so what? If a person wants to make a Fighter that specializes in fighting unarmored, does he get any sort of compensation for it? Of course not! He doesn't immediately gain the ability to grant himself a +4 armor bonus, despite the fact that he could easily just don a suit of armor. Sure, some DMs might give him something to offset the fact that he's willingly gimped himself, just like some DMs might give a Duskblade Mage Armor if the player really wants it. But the class is designed to wear Light Armor, and has the class ability to specifically allow him to do it, something that other arcane casters can't do. The Fighter has the ability to wear armor, but if he chooses to go against the spirit of the class, he doesn't get anything for it.

He could always buy potions of Mage Armor (and he most likely will), but so can the Duskblade. And believe me, I've heard plenty of players who've wanted to play unarmored Fighters, and not one of them tried to argue that he should get access to Mage Armor.

As I said, the Duskblade doesn't get Mage Armor because he doesn't need it. If you choose to not make use of one of its core abilities, go for it- maybe your DM can houserule you some compensation- but there's no reason you should get something for thematic purposes. In fact, most choices made for a character's theme rather than mechanics will almost always, if not always, hinder you.