Dwarf's Toughness

[Crothian]

"Fortitude negates"?

Bring it on. He can be sick for a day

Well, if he's hit with more then one he can die very easy from it. But all strategies have weakness, and all weakness have counters, and on and on and on.

 

[Apok]

"Fortitude negates"?

Bring it on. He can be sick for a day

(Even at ninth level -- the level he'd be set back to by a seventeenth level caster, assuming the spell rolled max, and he was facing someone of equal level -- his Fort save is still +19, +21 versus spells... oh, except he'd have +6 enhancement to Con, not +2, from his magic item Not sure how closely this mirrors the way negative levels work, but it's pretty certain that they wouldn't become permanent.)

Forgive me, I wasn't being specific enough. Not the spell, the monster ability. No save until 24 hours later and if you accumulate a number of negative levels equal to your own, you're toast. No save, no chance for ressurection, do not pass go, do not collect $200.

Now, admittedly, this kind of thing is equally lethal to someone with 50 HP's as it is to someone with 500. However, if any player actually tried to create this character, I can guarantee you that there will be a massive increase in the energy draining undead population. Of course, if we're talking spells, enough Enervations would take him down in short order.

 

[Crothian]

Forgive me, I wasn't being specific enough. Not the spell, the monster ability. No save until 24 hours later and if you accumulate a number of negative levels equal to your own, you're toast.

The spell works the same way.

 

[Apok]

The spell works the same way.

Does it? Man, and all this time I've been thinking it allowed a Fort Save right off the bat. Well, in that case, the spell would work just as well, but as a DM I'd rather use Enervation (can be placed in a Wand) or the various undead creatures like Spectres, Wights, etc.

 

[Crothian]

Does it? Man, and all this time I've been thinking it allowed a Fort Save right off the bat. Well, in that case, the spell would work just as well, but as a DM I'd rather use Enervation (can be placed in a Wand) or the various undead creatures like Spectres, Wights, etc.

Odd, the SRD does not say that the saving throw is 24 hours later, yet my PHB does. Well, Enervation has no saving throw, so that would work.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

I don't really see a problem. There are plenty of save-or-die spells and abilities out there, and they only get more plentiful as you rise in level. At 20th-level when this guy is sporting 500hp, he's going to be dodging Dominate Monster, Heightened Disintegrate, and Inprisonment from wizards and sorcerers, Creeping Doom and Maximized Flamestrike from druids, and Ranged Harm from the cleric.

Even a decent 20th-level fighter will give this guy problems. With a Greater Magic Weaponed Keen, Flaming Burst Greataxe and the feats: Weapon Focus/Specialization, Improved Critical, Power Attack, etc. is going to be taking a big chunk out of that HP pool.

And a rogue with shuriken coated in black lotus who wins initiative (likely) can do 30d6+9 damage and force nine fort saves vs. 3d6 Con damage before HP boy even acts.

*shrug* There's always a counter. Again, I don't see a problem, really.

 

[Caliban]

...as well as Giant's Toughness, and Dragon's Toughness, (from MotW) struck me as a little off the first time I saw them. Especially since they're available as Fighter bonus feats, meaning you can really max out on them...

Plus, there's an exploit: They're based on Fort save, so you can multiclass to qualify really quickly.

Here, friends, is an example of the pain:

You forgot to take a level of wizard so that you could get a toad, and a further +2 Con.

 

[Hypersmurf]

And remember, with that cleric level, you can cast Virtue...

-Hyp.

 

[Guilt Puppy]

Re: Re: Dwarf's Toughness

You forgot to take a level of wizard so that you could get a toad, and a further +2 Con.

Hmm, that would mean sacrificing one Dragon's Toughness (as it would set your fighter feats back, at the very least), and 3 hit points from Hit Dice... A drop of 15, so not worthwhile until 15th level (that +2 con is worth +1/level, remember)

Of course, with that level of Wizard you could by a scroll of Contingency, to go with your level of Cleric and scroll of Heal, with maxed out ranks in Spellcraft to cast beyond your level (although this does mean pumping Int and Wis a lot... but by 15th level, you can afford a few magic items to boost things... Int/Wis 16 are certainly attainable, esp. if you went the Monk route) Enervation and energy drain are still problems, so you do like having a high AC vs. touch... Although another Contingency and Restoration can do the trick (sure, you'll have to deal with some failures, but you've got money to burn obtaining the scrolls...)

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I don`t like the Toughness feats, but mainly because every of them costs just a single feat, is not a prerequisite for the next one and they give different value of hp...
(And if I recall correctly, the Toughness Feat itself is not a FIghter feat - which makes sense, somehow, because it is not a special fighting technique or ability. This should also applay to the other Toughness feats)

If Toughness would work similar to the psionics "Inner Strength" Feat (and others), than I could live with it. (Granting 3 hp at first level, 3 more than before every "take" thereafter, with increasing Fortitude Save Requirement)

I wonder if this character would be really that useful. Be aware that taking the Cleric and Druid level will reduce the Attack Bonus, which might hamper his combat ability. His high Constitution Ability Score will be difficult to get if you are not assuming lucky rolls or high point-buy values. (With 25 point-buy, this character will probably be useless, just difficult to kill)

The fact that you don`t have any "aggressive" feats will make the character not very powerful in combat - he will probably survive it, but what about his comrades?
Remember that, in D&D, Offense usually wins over Defense