Dwarven Axe-thrower... how?

[Stalker0]

Basically problems like these are an issue in any new edition. The core rules only handle the "main" archetypes, and splatbooks fill in the gaps. You saw this in 3e with more throwing feats and throwing based Prcs.

For now I would recommend this feat to your DM

Master Thrower (Heroic)
Benefit: When using a power that has the ranged weapon keyword, you may instead use a throwing weapon. If you use a heavy thrown weapon, you can use your strength for the attack and damage rolls.

I don't think this feat would be imbalanced in the slightest because thrown weapons do less damage and have shorter range.

 

[Stalker0]

I don't think there's need of a feat. The "Heavy Thrown" quality overrides the power description, in the "exception-based design" notion 4e is built around. Go nuts.

Actually, the heavy thrown property specifically mentions it only works with ranged basic attacks, not powers. That said, I don't think it is unreasonable in the slightest to just get the benefit on all powers. I posted a feat above to help, but again going the thrown weapon over the bow route is a power down anyway, so I would try to get your dm to okay it without the feat.

 

[Master Witch]

I don't think there's need of a feat. The "Heavy Thrown" quality overrides the power description, in the "exception-based design" notion 4e is built around. Go nuts.

And keep in mind that all thrown magic weapons return to the wielder's hand after the attack is resolved.

I don't see that the "Heavy Thrown" quality overrides the power description. The text only says ranged basic attack (see below).

Heavy Thrown:You hurl a thrown weapon from your hand, rather than using it to loose a projectile. A ranged basic attack with a heavy thrown weapon uses your Strength instead of your Dexterity for the attack and damage rolls.

All this says is that the weapon weighs enough that in that moment when you use it without any real skill (powers) you throw it with str not dex.

See “Str or Dex” page 216

 

[am181d]

Why wouldn't you just play a ranger taht starts with a high strength and high dexterity? Am I missing something?

 

[On Puget Sound]

Allowing a ranger to substitute STR for DEX on ranged powers allows a character that is as good at melee as a melee-specialized ranger AND, at the short ranges where most fighting happens, as good at ranged powers as an archer-specialized ranger.

The ability to add your (maxed) STR to each attack overcomes the difference between a d10 arrow and a d6 thrown item (hmmm...perhaps not in heigher tiers where pwers are doing 4[W]; I haven't much looked at the game past Heroic).

This change would definitely make the thrown ranger a better build than before. Does it become better than the archer ranger?

It seems like a far-reaching change to make without careful thought. And, as mentioned above, what will you do when other characters want to also substitute their basic-weapon STR for their powers' governing stats? You could end up with an all-Dragonborn campaign.

 

[Stalker0]

This change would definitely make the thrown ranger a better build than before. Does it become better than the archer ranger?

I don't think so, for several reasons:

1) An archer only has to focus on dex, and dex gives him Ac, reflex, and initiative. Strength gives you fort, that's it. A thrown ranger relying on strength doesn't have the inherent dex advantages of an archer ranger.

2) While there are some powers that let you use melee or ranged, in many cases you have to choose. So if a thrown ranger chooses some melee and some ranged powers, while then he's just gaining a bit of diversity. I can't see that giving him more raw power than an archer ranger.

3) A bow has 4 times the range of a thrown weapon....4 times!! While yes most battles start closer than that range, they don't have to end there. The archer can just keep moving his speed back every round and continue firing. The thrown weapon user has to stand in the thick of things.

 

[Reaper Steve]

Allowing a ranger to substitute STR for DEX on ranged powers allows a character that is as good at melee as a melee-specialized ranger AND, at the short ranges where most fighting happens, as good at ranged powers as an archer-specialized ranger.

The ability to add your (maxed) STR to each attack overcomes the difference between a d10 arrow and a d6 thrown item (hmmm...perhaps not in heigher tiers where pwers are doing 4[W]; I haven't much looked at the game past Heroic).

This change would definitely make the thrown ranger a better build than before. Does it become better than the archer ranger?

It seems like a far-reaching change to make without careful thought. And, as mentioned above, what will you do when other characters want to also substitute their basic-weapon STR for their powers' governing stats? You could end up with an all-Dragonborn campaign.

I agree, and I'm not necessarily pursuing a house rule as some have suggested. I'm just looking to see if I can make a vaiable charcter within the current framework.

However, I do think an option to continue to use STR for the ranged powers is feasible, at some cost (like a feat) and I hope that this is an option available in Martial Power.

While I don't think that allowing the throwing ranger to use STR for powers while using the heavy throwns is, in and of itself, out of balance, I do think there should be some tradeoff... even if it is limiting his proficiencies to not include bows or something.

 

[Andor]

Why not just play a fighter with a warhammer and a throwing hammer in your off-hand?

The Two-weapon fighting feat makes that throwing hammer as good as a light shield for defense, and you can throw it whenever you please.

That way you can make a ranged basic attack whenever you need or the Warlord asks for one. Later you'll get +1 to damage from the two-weapon fighting feat. If you run out of throwing hammers the Warhammer is versatile anyway.

If you are really dying for a higher damage ranged power, then multi into ranger for a power or two.

 

[FadedC]

I think there's no question that a TWF ranger is quite a bit more powerful if you let him use strength for ranged powers. He won't be as strong at range as a bow ranger.....but he won't be a whole lot weaker either. And he will be MUCH stronger up close then a bow ranger. Keep in mind as well that you can get over the range limits by using javelins, which have a quite impressive range.

Now I don't have enough experience with rangers in the game yet to know just how unbalancing a change this would be. I'd like to think that TWF rangers are perfectly strong as is, and that as a result making them much stronger is a bad thing. But I don't really know for sure.

Like Puget Sound says though, it's not a change to be taken lightly.

 

[Mistwell]

I'd let you use strength for range, if you used dex for melee.