Dwarven Defender Elves

[Sejs]

However, he would no longer meet the requirements for the Dwarven Defender class, and thus lose all class benefits.

Oh the whole proposal is solidly in House Rules territory, but then again by the rules a dwarf that gets reincarnated as an elf would suddenly forget how to fight orcs the right way, the finer points of appraising metalwork, and how to wield a waraxe properly. But all of a sudden he's sprouted proficiency with some little fru-fru dueling swords and archery for some reason even though he never went out of his way to practice with them before.

By the rules, you're dead right - he would lose access to DD benefits because the racial entry on his character sheet no longer reads "dwarf". However, the rules don't always give us the best answer for a given situation. *shrug*

 

[Veritas]

By the rules, you're dead right - he would lose access to DD benefits because the racial entry on his character sheet no longer reads "dwarf". However, the rules don't always give us the best answer for a given situation. *shrug*

Actually, by the SRD quote I made above, he's wrong... reincarnation does not affect your class in any way, except reducing your by a level. Now, if he only had one level in Dwarven Defender, then he'd lose it, but if he was higher than Dwarven Defender 1, he'd keep whatever left-over levels he had in the class, and he'd still qualify for advancement... according to the spell description.

 

[Romnipotent]

this is all assuming the DD has gotten 10 levels of DD and 2 in something else, meaning hes a devoted defender or something
He loses a level, and still has 10 of DD, which he keeps all the abilities for, although no longer qualifies to take levels in I think

 

[Veritas]

this is all assuming the DD has gotten 10 levels of DD and 2 in something else, meaning hes a devoted defender or something
He loses a level, and still has 10 of DD, which he keeps all the abilities for, although no longer qualifies to take levels in I think

Would that "Devoted Defender" part even matter though, given what's stated in the spell description?

I'd give you that losing the "dwarf" racial part would likely qualify for that part of the description that says "It’s possible for the change in the subject’s ability scores to make it difficult for it to pursue its previous character class. If this is the case, the subject is well advised to become a multiclass character." so the character couldn't go any further in DD, but the spell seems to go with that as more of a suggestion than a rule.

 

[Romnipotent]

Gotta love that the entire SRD/rulebook system are all suggestions in running a game. Although I love some DM's whop try to apply physics to my spell casters, they end up crying. The rules are more of what we would call guidelines.

As for banning reincarnate, well each to their own. But you dont know the joys of being a Sun Elf/Grey Elf if you dont reincarnate.

 

[Li Shenron]

Does Farugon keep the dwarven racial weapons?
Does Farugon get the elven racial weapons?
Assuming Farugon had fully progressed as a Dwarven defender and was now also another PrC or some other class would he keep all the DD levels and benefits?
Would you even consider letting this happen?

I agree that he should keep everything he has learned, while everything he was "born with" should be adjusted to match the new race. If this leads to being better or worse than a normal character (DM's call), I might have ruled in/out some of the less obvious feature, such as the ST bonuses vs spells.

Probably I'd go this way in this case:

+2 Dexterity, -2 Constitution (as Elf)
Medium size, speed 30 (as Elf)
Immunity to sleep (as Elf)
+2 vs Enchantment (as Elf) -> debatable, I'd say it's a mental innate ability
+2 Listen, Spot, Search & autosearch for secret doors (as Elf)

Weapon Familiarity (as Dwarf)
+1 attack vs Goblinoids & Orcs (as Dwarf)
+4 dodge vs Giant (as Dwarf)
Various languages (as Dwarf)
Favored class Fighter (as Dwarf)

Now what's blurred IMO is Stonecunning and the +2 Appraise/Craft. I am not sure if I would treat this as something learned from Dwarven culture or otherwise coming from a sort of innate link with everything stoney and earthy . Also I might rule that he keeps only part of stonecunning, perhaps the sense of depth is not learned but innate? Maybe I'd be generous and consider everything cultural, so he'd keep all of them.

Finally about the Dwarven Defender, I'd let him keep all the levels and continue advancing with no problems. It depends on what's your campaign issues with this PrCl: if you play that you need training from the DD masters to advance, then he's probably stuck to what he got so far. But to me the features seem quite straightforward, so I could imagine him keep training in this way of fighting. That's mostly a campaign issue IMHO.

 

[Caliban]

Actually, by the SRD quote I made above, he's wrong... reincarnation does not affect your class in any way, except reducing your by a level. Now, if he only had one level in Dwarven Defender, then he'd lose it, but if he was higher than Dwarven Defender 1, he'd keep whatever left-over levels he had in the class, and he'd still qualify for advancement... according to the spell description.

He might keep his previous class abilities (although I think that's open to debate), but he definitely would not be able to advance as a dwarven defender.

 

[Veritas]

Gotta love that the entire SRD/rulebook system are all suggestions in running a game. Although I love some DM's whop try to apply physics to my spell casters, they end up crying. The rules are more of what we would call guidelines.

As for banning reincarnate, well each to their own. But you dont know the joys of being a Sun Elf/Grey Elf if you dont reincarnate.

They try to apply *physics* to a completely unrealistic concept such as magic? Weirdos.

However, as I said above, only the part where it mentions multiclassing is really a suggestion. The rest is pretty cut and dry.

However, I'll say that I'll bend on my previous statement for the character being able to advance as the DD... By the rules of the spell, which don't leave much to interpretation, imo, the character would retain all prior class information, but they would have to continue on as something else after the reincarnation... perhaps returning to Ranger, since that was his starting class, and is quite appropriate for an elf.

 

[Romnipotent]

had one guy try to impose steam explosions on ice substituted fireballs on fire elementals... the BEST part was me explaining the new tactic of summoning fire elementals in order to double the blast radius of our fireballs, multiply the damage by half in the central blast radius (20ft) and dispose of things post haste

 

[Matafuego]

Well suppose he had a Str depending feat (such as PA) and a Prestige Class with that feat as requirement, and as his new reincarnated race his Str dropped below 13...
Isn't the same thing?