Dwarven Fighter Discussion

[Wormwood]

And don't discount the Dwarf's *awesome* ability to use his second wind as a minor action. Trust me, boosting your defenses without slowing down is a real treat.

 

[Nifft]

Dwarves are fine Fighters.

IMHO Shield + one handed weapon is better than hefting a two-hander, both because +2 AC is good and because Tide of Iron is awesome.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Old Gumphrey]

You know what else is awesome? +2 damage and Reaping Strike.

 

[Nifft]

You know what else is awesome? +2 damage and Reaping Strike.

You do know you only get +2 to damage rolls, yes?

Cheers, -- N

 

[Old Gumphrey]

Why are you implying that I don't know rules?

2H weapons do more damage (up to +2 on average, which actually increases with multiple dice attacks).

Tide of Iron is useless with a 2H. Reaping Strike is awesome with a 2H.

Using a 2H is awesome. Reaping Strike is awesome. Awesome = awesome.

 

[Nifft]

Why are you implying that I don't know rules?

2H weapons do more damage (up to +2 on average, which actually increases with multiple dice attacks).

Tide of Iron is useless with a 2H. Reaping Strike is awesome with a 2H.

Using a 2H is awesome. Reaping Strike is awesome. Awesome = awesome.

2H? I thought we were talking about Dwarven Weapon Training.

Confused, -- N

 

[Stalker0]

You might find that a shield makes you more useful to your party.

You know I'm starting to wonder if this is true or not. I have so far been on the sword/board bandwagon. A little extra damage...or +2 reflex/AC!! No content!

But in order for a defender to "do his job" he has to be attacked. And as others have noted, are the marks enough of a disincentive for enemies to attack other creatures?

Some people running math have shown that even with the mark a full plated, shielded fighter is still a lot harder to hit than another class. A smart monster may still take the penalty and attack elsewhere. With a 2HW, you do more damage if the guy decides to attack someone else, and with a slightly lower AC your a more inviting target.

Time will tell of course, but its something I've been thinking about of late. Shields still look awesome, but might not be quite as awesome as I initially thought.

 

[Nifft]

A smart monster may still take the penalty and attack elsewhere. With a 2HW, you do more damage if the guy decides to attack someone else, and with a slightly lower AC your a more inviting target.

This is exactly the balance of the Defender: to be an inviting enough target to draw attacks, but not so inviting that he ends up dead.

IMHO, the perfect Defender is one who draws attacks which miss, and that's why I advocate using a shield. You aren't saving the party any resources if you end up dead.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Old Gumphrey]

2H? I thought we were talking about Dwarven Weapon Training.

Confused, -- N

Yeah, that explains a lot.

I was just turning around on your +2 AC/Tide of Iron post with a "more damage/different power" thing.

Both of the defenders in my Sunday game are 2H (a pally and a fighter although the fighter has a new character), and they are (were) excessively nasty. They have a perfect AC for what was just discussed: it's low enough that targeting someone else for that -2 just isn't worth it, but it's high enough that they can still take a few hits. Not many bad guys were willing to eat that greatsword OA aside from a white dragon.

 

[Enforcer]

DWT doesn't stack with Weapon Focus, so while It's nice from levels 1 to 10 it becomes redundant for a Fighter after that.

This is true, however one could always use the retraining rules in the epic tier where Weapon Focus becomes better than Dwarven Weapon Training.