E. Gary Gygax Sr. May Have Had Another, More Recent Will?

[Mistwell]

I don't really have any skin in this particular game, but I don't know how well Luke is going to fare. I see Gail's attorney has objected to the admission of this new last will and testament as well as the appointment of Lucien as the personal representative (I think that's the executor of the will). It's apparent Luke was fine with how the property was distributed years ago and has only recently changed his mind. I'm not a lawyer, but I can certainly see a judge telling Luke, "It's too late. You were given an opportunity to make your case years ago before the estate had been settled. Objection sustained." In Wisconsin, probate must be finished within 18 months but a judge may grant an extension if necessary. I don't think Luke will fare well here.

I suspect this is all more complicated than we can suss out from what we have. I think a lot of this involves Gail's management of the trust. Even if a new will were found to have been probated too late, if it's found to be real, then it can serve to force certain actions under the management of the existing trust as an indication of the decedent's intent behind how they wanted the trust to be run. Which is why I say some of this is just beyond my pay grade, and the trust details too in the weeds for me.

But bottom line, the adjudication of the old will can be found to be valid while simultaneously the adjudication of this new will to have been real (but brought too late) can change how the old will is managed by the trustee.

 

[darjr]

Tenkar is one of those 'angry' pot stirrers I'm done with on the net. No thanks. I'll wait till Luke wants to talk about it.

 

[Mistwell]

Tenkar is one of those 'angry' pot stirrers I'm done with on the net. No thanks. I'll wait till Luke wants to talk about it.

He just got out of the hospital after a prolonged and pretty intense health battle. He doesn't seem very angry at the moment. Just thankful to be alive. But yes he's a gossip columnist in the style of Rich Johnson for Comics industry gossip.

 

[MGibster]

I suspect this is all more complicated than we can suss out from what we have. I think a lot of this involves Gail's management of the trust.

I imagine you're correct but Luke's feelings regarding Gail's management of the trust isn't really relevant from a legal perspective.

Even if a new will were found to have been probated too late, if it's found to be real, then it can serve to force certain actions under the management of the existing trust as an indication of the decedent's intent behind how they wanted the trust to be run. Which is why I say some of this is just beyond my pay grade, and the trust details too in the weeds for me.

Wisconsin has a time limit of 18 months for probate to be completed which gives ample time for disputes to be settled, taxes to be paid, and creditors to be notified. The reason most states have a limit on how long probate should take is so people can take care of their business, get on with their lives, and not worry that ten years from now someone is going to show up to challenge it.

But bottom line, the adjudication of the old will can be found to be valid while simultaneously the adjudication of this new will to have been real (but brought too late) can change how the old will is managed by the trustee.

This isn't a situation where the most recent will was lost or hidden before being discovered as those who had custody and/or knowledge of Gary's most recent will deliberately withheld it from the court. In Wisconsin, the person who has custody of the will is required by law to either file it with the court or present it to the personal representative within 30 days of finding out about the death of the testator. Any person who has reason to believe a will exist and has not been filed is required to inform the court within 30 days after they have that information.

The Gygax children deliberately flouted the law when they failed to bring up Gary's most recent will back in 2008. I don't believe the judge will be at all sympathetic to Luke's case. The time to bring the most recent will to the court's attention was twelve years ago. The Gygax children made their bed and now they've got to lay in it.

 

[darjr]

Hope he gets well, but still not interested.

 

[Mistwell]

I imagine you're correct but Luke's feelings regarding Gail's management of the trust isn't really relevant from a legal perspective.

He's a beneficiary I believe. He has standing to challenge the trustee actions under the trust.

Wisconsin has a time limit of 18 months for probate to be completed which gives ample time for disputes to be settled, taxes to be paid, and creditors to be notified. The reason most states have a limit on how long probate should take is so people can take care of their business, get on with their lives, and not worry that ten years from now someone is going to show up to challenge it.

All true, and not what I am referring to.

There is a family trust. Gail Gygax manages that trust, and she is a beneficiary along with, I think, all the children of Gary Gygax including Luke, to some extent (though I have not seen the trust and don't know that first hand).

If the kids of Gary think the trust is not being managed based on the dictates laid down by Gary when he was alive, then the submission of a later will which indicates the wishes of Gary when he was alive concerning the management of his assets after his death can result in a court order forcing the Trustee (Gail) to distribute trust assets differently than she was previously distributing them in her management duties. The will wouldn't be used to override the old will - it would be used as evidence of the decedent's wishes concerning how he wanted his assets distributed under the trust.

This can be done at any time. It's not a challenge to the prior will - it's a challenge to the decisions of the trustee under that old will. It's somewhat similar to bringing a new action concerning an old child support case. You can bring an action concerning a settled probate matter if the action is about management of the estate under that probate. In fact, a lot of probate court cases are concerning old probates.

For example (and this example has nothing to do with this particular matter it's just an example of how this can work years later), if in probate in 2005 it's decided a trustee is supposed to distribute money from a trust to pay for a child's education when they reach age 18 (which is 15 years later in 2020), and then when 15 years comes around the trustee refuses to distribute that money because they don't like the college the child chose to attend, the child brings a new action in probate court concerning the old probate to decide the question of whether the Trustee has acted in the interests of the beneficiaries and the desires of the decedent. That would be a fairly standard probate matter. Probate decisions can be opened many years later if there is a legitimate dispute concerning the decisions of the trustee of a trust.

This isn't a situation where the most recent will was lost or hidden

Actually we don't know that.

The Gygax children deliberately flouted the law when they failed to bring up Gary's most recent will back in 2008.

We have no reason to believe they knew about it in 2008, unless you have information I do not have.

 

[JohnRTroy]

I'm not going to really profess my opinion on this, or talk about private information, but there are certain facts that can be looked up that I did want to point out to clarify things.

The current "Gygax Trust" was not established upon Gary's death, nor was it apparently an inheritance trust.

Since the founding of Trigee Enterprises, all of Gary's intellectual property was owned by Gail Gygax, NOT by Gary Gygax--Gary was "under contract" to Trigee Enterprises--and about 95% of Gary's output was done as Trigee. It was an arrangement Gary and Gail agreed upon for various reasons. So, basically since 1986 or so, all the stuff Gary worked on post TSR was owned by Gail, not Gary. In short, as far as I know, Gary couldn't even choose to leave any IP assets to his kids unless Gail agreed to it. In this response, I'm going by what I knew of Trigee from Gary himself, and my years working for him, along with things others have learned--there could be some details in the incorporation docs or elsewhere that might clarify things, so I won't say this with 100% certainty.

Trigee Enterprises was I believe then converted into or owned by the Gail C. Gygax Revocable Trust. Note that this is not a family trust, and she is listed as the sole recipient of it--I believe this trust was established years after Gary's passing. Documentation on this can be found at the Trademark Board for the active Gygax trademarks -- all documents say "The Trustees of the GAIL C. GYGAX REVOCABLE TRUST, a Wisconsin trust, the trustees comprising of Gail C. Gygax, a United States Citizen". So the current trust is, as far as I can tell, not something any of the kids are involved in, nor anything that was established as the estate when passing. (Could be wrong but I doubt the Trademark board would word it like that if there were other trustees involved).

In terms of the court, I don't believe Gail ever took her will to probate court. That's probably why there's a dispute now.

 

[Shiroiken]

The whole Gygax inheritance has been a nightmare from the beginning. The biggest issue I've had with it is that since the kids were involved with the D&D IP from the beginning, it would make sense for it to go to them, and I'm kinda sad that Gary didn't make this a well known desire. The fact that Gail had Gygax magazine shut down, despite it being Luke's last name, shows how nasty this has gotten. The new will may be valid or not (good luck legal system), but it shows yet another level of bitter contention in this "family."

 

[Mistwell]

In terms of the court, I don't believe Gail ever took her will to probate court. That's probably why there's a dispute now.

OH! Well, that does change things

 

[Mistwell]

I'm not going to really profess my opinion on this, or talk about private information, but there are certain facts that can be looked up that I did want to point out to clarify things.

The current "Gygax Trust" was not established upon Gary's death, nor was it apparently an inheritance trust.

Since the founding of Trigee Enterprises, all of Gary's intellectual property was owned by Gail Gygax, NOT by Gary Gygax--Gary was "under contract" to Trigee Enterprises--and about 95% of Gary's output was done as Trigee. It was an arrangement Gary and Gail agreed upon for various reasons. So, basically since 1986 or so, all the stuff Gary worked on post TSR was owned by Gail, not Gary. In short, as far as I know, Gary couldn't even choose to leave any IP assets to his kids unless Gail agreed to it. In this response, I'm going by what I knew of Trigee from Gary himself, and my years working for him, along with things others have learned--there could be some details in the incorporation docs or elsewhere that might clarify things, so I won't say this with 100% certainty.

Trigee Enterprises was I believe then converted into or owned by the Gail C. Gygax Revocable Trust. Note that this is not a family trust, and she is listed as the sole recipient of it--I believe this trust was established years after Gary's passing. Documentation on this can be found at the Trademark Board for the active Gygax trademarks -- all documents say "The Trustees of the GAIL C. GYGAX REVOCABLE TRUST, a Wisconsin trust, the trustees comprising of Gail C. Gygax, a United States Citizen". So the current trust is, as far as I can tell, not something any of the kids are involved in, nor anything that was established as the estate when passing. (Could be wrong but I doubt the Trademark board would word it like that if there were other trustees involved).

In terms of the court, I don't believe Gail ever took her will to probate court. That's probably why there's a dispute now.

Thank you for those clarifications. I feel like I am looking at a very small part of a large picture and stumbling along trying to piece some information together from too little, and this helps.